The Unsure Entrepreneur

The Unsure Entrepreneur Podcast (Bruce Hunt interview)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
bruce, speaking, speech, public speaking, entrepreneur, business, situations, audience, experience, working, opportunities, bit, notes, clients, give, big, organizations, fear, helping, presentation

SPEAKERS
Bruce Hunt, Roger Pierce

Intro 00:00
You're listening to the unsure entrepreneur podcast with Roger Pierce. Whether you're scribbling business ideas on a napkin, or wrestling with this should I shouldn't tie question, get ready to explore the realities, the risks and the rewards of entrepreneurship, as we share the stories, scars and successes of small business owners.

Roger Pierce 00:21
Hi there. I'm Roger Pierce, and you're listening to the unsure entrepreneur podcast. If you've ever been nervous about making a speech or presentation to a group of people, you're going to learn a lot from my guest today. Bruce Hunt is a highly sought after public speaking coach in Toronto. Known for his expertise in helping people to improve their communication skills with clarity, credibility and confidence. He has worked with organizations and companies such as TD Bank, Xerox, Canada YMCA, George Brown College and the Canadian Down Syndrome Society. For many years, Bruce served as president of the prestigious downtown Toronto Toastmasters Club, where we met and became good friends. His passion for guiding people to public speaking breakthrough shines through in his coaching and workshops, where he helps clients discover their untapped personal and leadership potential. Outside of his professional work, Ruth enjoys his power yoga sessions, planning scuba and shark diving adventures, and improving his ability to play Led Zeppelin songs on his acoustic guitar. Welcome,

Bruce Hunt 01:27
Bruce. Thanks, Roger. Pleasure to be here.

Roger Pierce 01:30
Thanks for the invite. So great to have you. It's been a while since we talked. Yeah, too long? Well, let's make up for the last time because I know you've got so many great pieces of advice, and experiences to share with our entrepreneurs who are just thinking about starting up a small business. So I want to get into it all. And I want to start off with let's talk about the fear of public speaking. It's an old joke. But it happens to be true that public speaking is feared more than death itself. In fact, according to the National Institutes of Mental Health 75% of people rank fear of public speaking as number one. Most people experience some degree of nervousness or anxiety when they give a speech, presentation or perform on stage. So can you give us a little example of the kind of training you do for people who are interested in improving their communications and public speaking?

Bruce Hunt 02:23
Yeah, well, first of all, I lead a number of workshops communicate with confidence is kind of my flagship workshop that I go into organizations with and I help people step by step, just learn to prepare, communicate, deliver, through some of the strategies involved in how they're going to get attention and keep the attention and just in general, feel more certainty about success when they're presenting in front of audiences?

Roger Pierce 02:55
Are you still doing your breakthroughs with Bruce,

Bruce Hunt 02:58
it's actually called Breakthrough night. It's something that I offer my clients who are working with me an opportunity to come and practice in an inspirational format, public speaking skills.

Roger Pierce 03:09
And I know we're gonna talk about the website later on Bruce hunt.ca, we offer all these great things. But you know, this, this show is about helping entrepreneurs and business founders and leaders. And I think mitigation skills is the number one success training required for entrepreneurs, it's so important, you've got to be able to convince your shareholders, you've got to be able to convince your investors, you've got to get customers on board, you've got to be able to pitch to the bank, you've got gotta be able to pitch to your potential employees, you've got to be able to read and write and present yourself really well. So I really do encourage all aspiring entrepreneurs to you know, maybe consider public speaking courses for those reasons when you agree.

Bruce Hunt 03:50
Absolutely. Absolutely. And number one, you have to believe in yourself, and you're being judged when you're up in front of an audience in terms of your trustworthiness and credibility, your confidence in what you're saying. So it would definitely benefit you to feel those qualities when you're speaking to groups or audiences or people in general. And it's more than

Roger Pierce 04:14
just about, you know, public speaking. I know a lot of people think, Oh, well, I'm not going to be giving too many speeches, per se. But it's about confidence, too, isn't it, Bruce?

Bruce Hunt 04:22
Absolutely. Well, for me, I've kind of redefined public speaking, because public speaking does just conjure up a number of different situations or images in people's minds. It could be a campaign speech, it could be a pitch or a wedding speech could be a bunch of different things. So for me, I just define public speaking as anytime you have an audience can be one people could be 10 100. But you have a message or you have something that you want to communicate to them that's very important to you. And that could be anything from asking someone else out on a date to pitching your new business venture. They can, it can manifest in a variety of different ways. But the key key ingredient is there's something really important you want to say. And you're probably feeling the pressure, because it's an important communication to you.

Roger Pierce 05:19
I love it, you've made your own definition of public speaking. And I know you get a number of executives and business leaders who come in for that purpose, they just want to do better at their work, right? Absolutely. So it's not all about standing up and giving the proverbial speech to a large crowd. Although what you're doing certainly helps them with that. No, let's talk a bit more about the nervousness and the fear that people have around this whole subject. What keeps us back from being confident and being good presenters? Well,

Bruce Hunt 05:47
it's never just one thing is it? Public speaking, kind of, it's like whacking the bee's nest in your head of all your worries and fears and concerns about your reputation, and your, your image and how people are going to perceive you. It kind of kind of draws all that stuff out in you at once. So it's never just about the public speaking, it's just an intensified version of many of the kinds of insecurities that we feel in daily social situations, all kind of ramped up in a one situation.

Roger Pierce 06:22
So you can help me, like you said, not only get that next speaking gig, but also just talk persuasively to a customer or if I was dating to get that date, it's an everyday use kind of scenario, isn't it?

Bruce Hunt 06:36
It's how you show up around other people.

Roger Pierce 06:40
So in the workshops and the courses that you offer, can you share some of the tips, I know you get paid for this, but we're gonna get it for free here today for the audience, can you give us a couple of quick tips off the top that help someone get better prepared as a presenter or public speaker,

Bruce Hunt 06:55
one is recognizing that you have an issue around it. And instead of trying to kick that can down the road or procrastinate, I've had many clients come to me that have said, I've been thinking about doing this for years. And then they had that one pivotal moment or that big speaking engagement, where it finally was time. So there's an old phrase that I've kind of CO opted for my own purposes, the the best time to start working on your public speaking was 20 years ago, the second best time is right now. So just getting going on it. Because you need that experience, you need this, you need that kind of exposure therapy. If you're just waiting around for a speaking situation to come to you. That's probably not the best approach because you're gonna be rusty and and and feel a little bit uncomfortable. So I would say proactively go out there, find those opportunities and kind of low stakes situations. And that's what I offer my clients is opportunity to speak in a little friendlier, lower stakes situation so that you're accustomed to that your brand kind of recalibrates like, Hey, this is what we do, we speak to audiences. And you're definitely going to feel a little bit more comfortable. When that bigger stick situation comes along. Next tip I would add to that is just general preparation is to start early. The moment that you know, you have that speaking situation coming up, start working on it, start thinking about it. If you don't know what you're doing, then seek out someone that can answer some questions and get you started on the right foot. But what you don't want to do is wait for 48 hours before you have to give that presentation. And I know most of us feel like it all happens in that final 48 hours anyways. But you really are probably opening yourself up to a level of panic and stress that you can easily avoid if you just started day by day chipping away at it step by step, compiling some ideas, getting a beginning, knowing what your message is all that wonderful stuff. And that's what I enjoyed about

Roger Pierce 09:12
our old organization, Toastmasters. You know, it was every week, and you could go and kind of exercise your speaking muscles, as I call it. It was like going to the gym, right? I know you provide the same kind of experience with your private sessions. But and that's important for any kind of excellence. As an entrepreneur. You just got to be consistent. You got to get out and do it. You got to try it. And a lot of people have a misconception about Toastmasters. You're not there to stand up right away and give a keynote speech. It's really like the standing up and talking for 30 seconds. That's how we start people off there. It really is, like you said, just take a baby step. Get into it, exercise those speaking muscles. And you will get better over time, won't you? Absolutely.

Bruce Hunt 09:49
I mean, if you get worse over time,

Roger Pierce 09:53
we really have to talk. You're such a natural, natural relaxed speaker and I encourage anyone Got a chance to go out and check you out live, go to the website, Bruce ponte.ca and see what Bruce is up to. But one of the things I always am bad at Bruce is I write things down. I'm a writer. So I have notes. And that's a big, common thing for people to have as a safety net. But it's not the right approach. Is it? Really,

Bruce Hunt 10:16
I get asked this question a lot. So here's my my answer. One is you have to start where you're at. If you're so nervous, that you're going to have a hard time introducing yourself by your own name. I mean, if that's the level that we're at, you're probably much better off with having some notes that you've reviewed very carefully. And taking it from there, like you have to start where you're at. But if you really want to have impact, and you really want to be viewed as a credible, confident speaker, then you're going to have to move away, you're going to have to move away from the notes. And I still like to write notes, I just don't take them up there with me. But my comfort level has improved to the point where I can still make my notes and jot down my ideas, and my outline and my structure, and even my little jokes for my presentation or my speech. But I don't go up there with it. And there are some challenges with bringing notes up. One, if you're just holding paper in your hand, you're going to slap it and wrestle it around and create a bit of a distraction, and two, you're going to be tempted to read. And I don't think it's really having the notes, it's having to read the notes, that's the issue with notes, is you kind of lose that engagement and that impact and that authenticity, if you're just reading from something that you've prepared.

Roger Pierce 11:46
So what about this approach, if you you know, if you want to write it all out, that's fine, write out your two or three minute address or speech or whatever, write it down on paper, and then you boil it down into the classic cue cards, right, just a couple points to remind you on opening a close and a couple of points in the middle. That's all you need to bring up there. Right.

Bruce Hunt 12:04
And that's where the preparation you have to rehearse it rehearse and practice, I think a lot of people lose confidence in their ability to remember it. And that's in part due to lack experience or, or nervousness, right where you know that you that that adrenaline is going to hit your system, you're gonna be triggered into fight or flight, which does not usually equal eloquent, calm delivery of prepared notes, right. So I think you're gonna have to double down if you really want to really want to remember what you want to say, you're gonna have to double down on the rehearsal. And when I'm working with someone, whether it's a wedding speech, or a corporate presentation, when it comes down to the actual rehearsal, I make them do that over and over and over again, to the point where they're so done with that speech. They don't want to say it, they don't want to hear about it, after they've had their their big success. And that's the kind of commitment it takes. You want to remember something you really got to work on it.

Roger Pierce 13:12
Practice makes perfect. Another technique you use, which used to drive me a little nuts, back in Toastmasters, but I thank you for now, as you would record, people, you would video, people giving their talk and then share it with them so they could look at it and self critique and make improvements. Do you still do that? Yeah,

Bruce Hunt 13:29
absolutely. And I think that, for me, it wasn't so much the impact of the video, or the benefit of having the video wasn't so much so that you could look over it and look for opportunities to improve. It was just a relief that it sounded you you see it and you think, Oh, that was a lot better than I perceived it was. So there is something we enter this kind of altered state of consciousness sometimes when we're speaking in front of a group, and if you ask someone to objectively, I don't know if there is such thing as objective self review, or self analysis of your own speech, but it tends to be a little off the mark. It tends to lean towards the negative oftentimes, for you felt like you were struggling through your speech and could barely hang on to the words that you were speaking, and then you see it on video. Oh, I seems pretty calm. It's it came across a lot better than I thought it would.

Roger Pierce 14:28
It's a very reassuring point you've just made you are remember that you always come across better than you think you came across, right? For,

Bruce Hunt 14:37
by and large. Most of the people that I've worked with, I would say that's true. You

Roger Pierce 14:43
remind me of another fallacy that we have of this self doubt. And I'm hung up on saying the wrong word from my my script I have in my head. And I gotta remember, remind myself the audience doesn't know that I said the wrong word. So just carry on, right. They

Bruce Hunt 14:59
don't know what we took So I've run into quite a few people that will say that one word wrong, and then they'll finish their speech. And that'll be the only thing that's on their mind. So I say, Everybody focuses on the pre speaking preparation and the mindset, you have to adopt pre presentation. But post presentations equally important. If you did it, if it went anywhere close to 90% of the way that you prepared it, then take the win. Oh, sure, look at some of the opportunities that you could have improved a little bit, but resist that temptation to just focus on the one thing that didn't go quite right.

Roger Pierce 15:40
How do you calm those butterflies that inevitably happen, even do accomplish speakers, like two minutes before you go up to the mic,

Bruce Hunt 15:49
just keep breathing. Just keep breathing. I have a little exercise that I help my clients and people that attend my workshops with where we just kind of trigger some relaxed breathing, I find that always help for me is just just slowly exhaling to like, get to that point where I feel like oh, the breath has left my stomach. And then I have a spontaneous inhalation. And it kind of taps me into rhythmic natural style of breathing, which has a deeply calming influence, especially when your brain is trying to take you off somewhere else. And sometimes I will actually in those two minutes, if I can go to a washroom or something and look in a mirror, just trying to channel that into to a positive, enthusiastic energy

Roger Pierce 16:47
shot of whiskey help.

Bruce Hunt 16:49
Yeah, it probably helps. But I never recommend that. One

Roger Pierce 16:53
of the old jokes used to be picture your audience naked and helps calm you down.

Bruce Hunt 16:59
depends on your definition of calming down.

Roger Pierce 17:04
It's so important to develop these skills. And I know we're talking about you know, standing up and doing the audience thing. But, you know, PowerPoint presentations, sales, pitches, confidence in yourself, convincing others to follow your business vision, convincing the bank to give you that loan, an audience of one, there, perhaps these are really important communication skills for future leaders. So Bruce, I want to go back a bit to your origin story. Because we haven't heard that yet. This is a very unique, highly specialized business you're in how on earth did you get into public speaking coaching?

Bruce Hunt 17:39
Let me see if I can give you the quickest version of that. Well, if you go back 24 years ago, I was in my early 30s, I knew that I had an issue with public speaking. But like a lot of people, I was successfully able to avoid most situations. Till I got working for a big financial institution, one of the big banks, there were I was progressively seeing that the opportunity to advance your career was through presenting, being able to to present yourself as a leader. And more so than even that and more so than even opportunities I began to recognize you can't avoid it. There were just more and more of a speaking situations and I had really this deep seated phobia about being in front of audiences. I don't quite know where it came from. I was always a little shy, little even, maybe have some social anxiety. But I knew underneath there was a bigger version of myself just dying to fight its way out. So really, I just started helping it. It just started helping that newer version of me emerge. I just demonstrating a willingness to at least try get in front of audiences join Toastmasters, I took some seminars and some training and really just started working on that, that that fear and it was not easy going at first, I was just fighting my way through many different speaking situations. But over time, I started to get some feedback that I started get some successes and some feedback that started to kind of alter my self image for the better I started realizing that that I had some some positive qualities and some ways to add value and that I could be funny and entertaining. And when I found out that I could actually help people that were struggling with their public speaking fears and becoming a better communicator in general. Then I thought, this is a this is a good calling for me. I can think of a bit of better calling than some area of your life where you struggle immensely and able to, we're able to make some progress, and then figuring out how to take that those learnings and those lessons and that growth and help someone else, how lucky you are to have found your passion. I mean, it didn't happen overnight. I've since went on to work with so many people. And I'm always immensely grateful when I get a testimonial or feedback from someone, or just the occasional email that hey, Bruce, I just went and gave this presentation to 70 people, it went over really well. And I got some really good feedback afterwards. And I just wanted to thank you for those workshops or that coaching or that blog, post, whatever.

20:44
It is a good feeling to know you're helping people and you are so generous with your time and your patience, I know you have this unique ability to help people relax, so they can embrace the techniques you're offering, you really bring out the best in people I find. I'd like to make it inspiring. If you can transmute that fear into something inspirational, or something, you better still something enjoyable. It opens people's eyes to the possibilities with presenting and speaking to audiences. If you can really feel that you're, you're inspired to do it and that you're adding value. Absolutely. It's got so many potential opportunities, whether you pursue it as a career, or you just use it in your entrepreneurial life. But tell me, Bruce, you mean, one thing I admire about you is you've managed to shape this into a service business with different options, right? And I've got it here from from your website, if I understand you've got speech shops, speech writing, private coaching, and Keynote presentations. So how do you it's a very difficult thing for entrepreneurs to try to come up with charge for services. How did you come across these bundles? And how do you market them?

Bruce Hunt 21:54
Well, pricing is always a challenge. People and organizations don't just come to you and tell you exactly how much the maximum amount is there willing to spend with experience depending on who the organization is and who the person is you. And the variety of different people you've worked with, you get a little bit better at pricing. But what I try and do is leave some room, I try to overshoot. So try and maximize what I could potentially get out of the transaction because as an entrepreneur, right, you don't want to leave money on the table. And I leave myself some room that if they come back and say, Oh, that's outside of our budget, that's too much. Then I leave myself some room, I say, Well, I could have been if I take away the workbook. And we price it at this. So just leaving yourself a little flexibility. And it's kind of a good thing. If people don't respond to your first offer, I've wondered, because it gives you that opportunity, at least you know that they kind of put that at least you know that you couldn't have asked for more. You didn't know that you must know that from your own experience. It's

Roger Pierce 23:13
a delicate dance pricing a service, but you've done it so well. And you've got repeat customers, you've got a steady stream of new customers and my God, you're working with an expanding list of clients, individuals, businesses, nonprofits, and what did I see academic institutions on their prom Public Library, etc. How are you finding all this business? What are you doing to get your your name out there? Aside

Bruce Hunt 23:35
from my my website and a minimal LinkedIn presence, mostly, I guess through word of mouth, through other organizations that I've worked with or other people I just worked with, with RBC. And I have a client that I've worked with at RBC private coaching. He's been a one one man promotional machine, for me. So that's always nice when you have someone that's out there working in the background that promoting you.

Roger Pierce 24:07
Make sure that person gets a ball at Christmas. It's so important word of mouth and referrals. It's nice to hear, because that's a tried and true promotional method. A lot of new entrepreneurs haven't done yet. They rely on social or they put money into paid search, that kind of thing. Good old fashioned word of mouth and networking can work. And you do such a good job. You leave people wanting more. I'm sure they want me to come back. You've got high repeat orders. And it's all working for you, man. Congrats.

Bruce Hunt 24:36
Thanks. Well, you helped me a lot, both in terms of encouragement with some sound advice, some of which I took, many of which I probably didn't take and no just good. Just a good friend and support along the way. I didn't jump into this thinking I'm gonna be a businessman and I had a calling that I wanted to follow And I think for people like myself, there's one thing you have to grow into the actual calling the service getting better as a coach. But then there's the business element too. And sometimes the to the business, all men can kind of lag behind the passion for being a coach. So I really appreciate any advice or support I got, as I began to learn what it takes to run a small business and continue to do so is much appreciated.

Roger Pierce 25:31
Well, thank you for those kind words. And I'm always happy to help out and I know we're overdue for a lunch to watching the clock air. But what do you love most about being an entrepreneur? Can you share something you love, and maybe it's something you dislike,

Bruce Hunt 25:45
having worked in a big organization, and having the way things are delivered and what your daily responsibilities and your daily schedule is dictated to you. And always feel like you're in some capacity not measuring up to the expectations of those bigger organizations. I love the freedom to use my own judgment, my own creativity. I just love the freedom and flexibility of being an entrepreneur and being able to use my own unique creativity to build my business. It means I can take off in the middle of the day to support my sister in law's pop up yoga at Queen's Park. Good for you,

Roger Pierce 26:30
God bless. She's probably very grateful for that. Can you share as we wind things down? Bruce, one piece of advice for you know, young Bruce, or someone 25 years ago, considering starting their own business? Can you share a piece of advice you've learned?

Bruce Hunt 26:45
Well, that's a good question. I'm trying to imagine myself 25 years ago, what I would have told myself, it takes time, I thought, I guess like anything else, you always expect that results and things are going to come a lot faster. You just especially if you're pumped up, you're enthusiastic, you expect that you are just going to be super successful right away. Truth be told that that can't happen always leave open the possibility for overnight successes. But I've always been someone that just persists. And I just kept working away at it, learning my lessons. Having clients come to me and even having multiple, multiple, multiple coaching clients is has been obviously a learning experience. I mean, I was teaching them something. But in the process, I was learning so much from them as well, learning about myself along the way to that one that I was consistently capable more than I thought I was. And to just experimentation, trying different things. I don't think I took a lot of training and a lot of courses and few ideas stuck with me if you have it's kind of landed and and I found that beneficial. But I think overall, it's just that persistence of staying out there continuing to put your product forward and refine it and fine tune your prices. And that's I guess the other thing is you got to make a living at it. So I know pricing underpricing is a common issue with especially people in my area of expertise coaching the coaching industry. And I think you really just got to put a value that's gonna make you feel excited to deliver your product.

Roger Pierce 28:39
Well done. Great advice. Be persistent. I love it. Thank you so much. And unfortunately, that's all all the time we have. Bruce, I want to thank you very much for sharing your entrepreneurial journey and experiences with us. It means a lot to me and to our listeners. Yeah. Thanks, Roger. Thanks for having me on.

Bruce Hunt 28:56
And congratulations on the podcast. It was awesome.

Roger Pierce 28:58
Thank you very much. I'm having so much fun, reconnecting with people and meeting new people and sharing entrepreneurial stories and ideas. But listen, before you go, if a listener wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to connect? Well,

Bruce Hunt 29:10
my website is Bruce hunt.ca. And if you want to have a conversation, you can either use the messaging feature on our website to shoot me a question or go ahead and just book a free 15 minute 1520 minute strategy call. And we can talk about some of your goals and challenges and figure out how to help you take that next step towards presentation and communication confidence. And if you want to email me it's Bruce at Bruce hunt.ca. Or follow me

Roger Pierce 29:44
or follow you on LinkedIn. Excellent. Do all them. Sure. Wonderful stuff. Thanks again, Bruce. And unfortunately that's all the time we have everyone listening. Thanks for joining us and be sure to subscribe so you catch the next episode of The unsure entrepreneur. or bye for now.

Intro 30:03
That's it for this episode of the unsure entrepreneur podcast. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss other candid conversations with small business owners. And be sure to check us out at onshore entrepreneur.com