The Unsure Entrepreneur

The Unsure Entrepreneur featuring guest Scott Stirrett

Scott Stirrett 00:00
There is a lot involved in buying a business successfully, and right now in Canada, there's virtually no training that is being provided to Canadians to pursue this path.

Intro 00:09
You're listening to the Unsure Entrepreneur Podcast with Roger Pierce, whether you're scribbling business ideas on a napkin or wrestling with the should I shouldn't I question. Get ready to explore the realities, the risks and the rewards of entrepreneurship as we share the stories, scars and successes of small business owners.

Roger Pierce 00:31
One of the biggest challenges facing future entrepreneurs isn't just having a big idea, it's knowing where to find the right resources and support. Today, we're diving into how venture for Canada is tackling that head on with its founder, Scott sturrup. Scott is the founder and CEO of venture for Canada. The website is ventureforcanada.ca and it's a national charity helping young Canadians develop the entrepreneurial skills, networks and mindset they need to succeed in today's uncertain economy.

Roger Pierce 01:04
Since founding VFC in 2013, Scott has raised over $80 million in funding and supported more than 10,000 early career professionals in launching their careers. Scott is also the author of the upcoming book The Uncertainty Advantage, a book for young professionals navigating today's unpredictable job market now.
Before launching VFC, Scott worked at Goldman Sachs after graduating from Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service. Today, he's recognized as a thought leader in the future of work with features in the Washington Post Forbes The Globe and Mail and appearances on CBC News Network and BNN Bloomberg, welcome Scott,

Scott Stirrett
Thanks for having me.

Roger Pierce
Really glad to have you here, looking forward to digging into what you're all about with Venture for Canada, hear a bit of your background, and of course, we will talk about helping young entrepreneurs along the way. Now listen, you started Venture for Canada to help young Canadians, you know, build the skills and networks they need to succeed in an unpredictable economy. Let's start by in your own words, sharing a little more about what venture for Canada does and who it's designed to help.

Scott Stirrett
Venture for Canada is a national charity with the mission of fostering the entrepreneurial skills and mindset of young Canadians, and we focus on two principal things. The first is that we run programs where we recruit, train and support young people, predominantly age 18 to 25 to go work at small businesses across the country. And our second main focus area is entrepreneurship through acquisition, where we train people to learn how to buy businesses and grow those businesses across the country.

Roger Pierce
I've got a lot of questions for you later on about entrepreneurship by acquisition or through acquisition. That's such a hot trend. But let's start by, what inspired you to do all this to start Venture for Canada,

Scott Stirrett
My principal inspiration was my entrepreneurial family. And when I look at my like family history, almost everyone is an entrepreneur, Both my grandfathers, my father, many other family members, and the entrepreneurial spirit was definitely something that I grew up with. I believe it's important that more people have access to being entrepreneurial across the country. The second was my experience as a recent grad scene, where it is really tough for a lot of young people to get entrepreneurial experience at the beginning of their careers, and I created an organization that I wish existed when I was a young person.

Roger Pierce
You know, you touched upon a very sore subject, the challenges that young entrepreneurs face in getting going. And they've got the ambition, they've got the drive, they've got the energy, but the top three challenges in my mind, are, and it's true, access to funding, which I know you're helping with, they struggle to secure capital, and they can't have much of a credit history. So it's hard for young people, especially, right, at a school, to go borrow a lot of money to get into business, because the banks don't have that financial record with them. The other issue is lack of experience, right? They haven't been in the workforce, perhaps at all or for a long period of time. And starting a business requires, as you know, multiple multiple hats to wear. There's always different things to do, and building a strong team, you know, it's hard for young entrepreneurs to probably attract top talent when bigger companies, more established companies, are offering better perks, right?

Scott Stirrett
Yeah, it's often really challenging for people to go down the entrepreneurial path because it means that they're turning down more established or safer options, and especially in the context of a lot of uncertainty out there in the world and increasing cost of living, there are perhaps, like, more barriers for young people to pursue entrepreneurship today than in past generations.

Roger Pierce 04:44
You and I are doing our best to help reverse that and make it more accessible. Because I think I'm safe to say you believe the same thing. Canada needs more entrepreneurs, right?

Scott Stirrett 05:00
Absolutely, there are actually 100,000 fewer entrepreneurs in Canada than there were two decades.
Ago, even though our population has grown by over a third since then. So I think one of the most important things for our country is that we have more people going out and launching and growing businesses

Roger Pierce
Here here, and that's what I'm trying to do in my own humble way with the podcast, is just shed some light on the good, the bad and the ugly of entrepreneurship so people are aware of it, and maybe can come into it better prepared, being able to tackle those challenges, knowing where to find help and resources like Venture for Canada and the things you provide, I think if we have more conversations about entrepreneurship, people will take that step and get involved, right?

So little more specific. I know on the website, I've been reading about your internships, your entrepreneurship, your fellow fellowships. You guys have a lot of stuff going on. Can you elaborate on some of those key programs and how they help young Canadians?

Scott Stirrett 05:53
We have three core work integrated learning programs. The first is our fellowship program, where we recruit, train and support recent graduates of post secondary institutions to go work at startups, the selective participants called fellows go through a month long in person training camp that we do in Kingston, Ontario, and get access to one on one coaching over the course of the year. And we help the fellows get their first jobs at companies. This is a selective program. Around 10% of people who apply get in, and there's a vibrant alumni community of around 500 people from across the country who are part of it.

Our second program is our internship program, where we recruit, train and support current post secondary students to do four month long internships at small businesses across the country. And it's a great way to gain entrepreneurial experience while you're a student. And our third and final principal Work Integrated Learning Program is the Intrapreneurship program, where we support current post secondary students to do short duration projects that are five to seven hours per week over the course of seven weeks, students receive a stipend of around $1,500 per project, and they do a project with a team of one to three other students, and this is a great opportunity for a student to have a first entrepreneurial experience to help them learn more about what it's like to be an entrepreneur firsthand.

Roger Pierce 07:16
Whoa, so let me get this straight. You're talking about actually getting into work with an existing small business and or any business, and get that hands on type of exposure. That's what the program is all about.

Scott Stirrett
Yeah, 100% it's all about connecting young people to get real world, practical experiences at small businesses. That's fantastic. You know, I've long recommended that anybody even thinking about entrepreneurship, especially young people, because they don't have the experience, go and ask to job shadow an existing entrepreneur for a few days or a week or whatever they'll give you, because it's the best way to open your eyes and see what life as an entrepreneur is really like right before you get in there. But you guys are providing a vehicle to do that. That's fantastic.

Scott Stirrett
I think learning entrepreneurship on someone else's like dime, as one person once said to me, is one of the best ways to do it, because you're adding value to that company, and you're also learning firsthand what is involved in building something from the ground up.

Roger Pierce 08:08
Now, tell me about your partners and help make this all happen. You've got some private sector you've got some government funding partners. Tell me about that side of the business.

Scott Stirrett
Yeah, venture can is a charity that's supported by a wide range of different funders across Canada. Our largest funder is the Government of Canada. Through Employment and Social Development Canada, we also receive funding from major corporations, including RBC, TD bank and Scotiabank, and we also receive funding from foundations, including John Dobson Foundation, the Peter Gilligan Foundation and the DR Sobey Foundation and others across the country. And lastly, we also receive funding from individual donors across Canada. So we're supported through pretty diverse ranges of funding, and lucky to have a quite large and diversified base of supporters.

Roger Pierce
Now it's funny, you mentioned those funders, Government of Canada, TD, RBC, and Scotiabank. I've worked with all those organizations over the years on small business initiatives and small business content. It's important to have that right, because otherwise you couldn't make it happen. So hats off to those funders for getting involved and helping helping young entrepreneurs and young people.

Now you've had phenomenal success.
I think my numbers are even low, over 10,000 early career professionals through your doors raised more than 80 million. My God, you've got applications coming in. You've got small businesses to connect to. On the other side, employers knocking at your door. How do you manage all this? What's the organization and structure look like?

Scott Stirrett 09:40
We have a great team at venture for Canada. In terms of the staff team, there's almost 35 people who are employed by venture for Canada across the country who live everywhere from Vancouver to St John's and lucky to have a great leadership team. There's been many employees who've now been with the FC for like, six, seven years. We're only 11 years old, so that's a pretty long time in the span
Of a Venture for Canada. So first to say, like our staff team does a great job. And second is that we have a great board of directors. It's also across Canada that guides the organization as well. So lucky to have a great team who makes all these programs happen and brings them into reality.

Roger Pierce
Yay to the team, for sure, that's key. And how do you recruit all these entrepreneurs? How do they come and find you typically Scott?

Scott Stirrett 10:25
Through a couple ways. One is through our marketing efforts across Canada, we have almost 50,000 people who subscribe to our monthly newsletter, and a lot of interest comes through that. We also get referrals from different chambers of commerce, incubators, accelerators across Canada, and those are our two kind of major drivers of getting employers interested in VFC.

Roger Pierce
You know, you mentioned that, I'm sure you're you're aware of all the different players out there. There's a pretty healthy entrepreneurship ecosystem in Canada. We've got startup Canada, we've got Futurpreneur, we've got League of innovators. We've got you guys, all kinds of different folks out there all pulling for entrepreneurs. But the challenge is, as we talked about earlier, is entrepreneurs need to find out about these resources, right? And know what they're available of and one of my favorite programs I keep plugging it, is the Ontario Summer Company Program, right? I mentioned it to a friend of mine's kid who's in second year university. Just this week, there's $3,000 there as a grant for students who can start a business, get mentorship and get training, right? And they get to keep the profits of their summer business. So this kind of thing, right? We've got to make it more aware. We've got to get the message out. I know you're doing your part. That's part of the challenge. We've got billions and billions of dollars of government and nonprofit programs, subsidies, supports for entrepreneurs. We just got to get the awareness out there.

Scott Stirrett
Yeah, it's a huge focus of our work at VFC, because you can have great programs, but if people don't know about them, then they're not great. So we spend a ton of time investing in creative ways to market our programs, and the newsletter has become like one of the things that is most effective, but we do everything from social media, advertising, sometimes partnerships and doing events across Canada, we have an employer Advisory Council who advises us. There's a ton of ways that we are constantly need to be kind of grinding to make sure that Canadians know that our programs exist.

Roger Pierce 12:30
Excellent. Well, hopefully this podcast will do a little little bit of a contribution in a small way as well. So I want to talk to you about we talked about this earlier, before we started recording entrepreneurship through acquisition, and I pulled off some stats from your website here. So let's talk about that. It's about, you know, buying into a business. Now, for those who are you listening, who are new to entrepreneurship, there's really three main ways, as I like to say, to get into business. You can start from scratch, which is the only way I know what to how to do. And it's a grind, because there's no certainty. Cash flow is lumpy, to say the least, there's stress, there's uncertainty. You got to convince customers to buy from you, but it's how most businesses are started. Still, then there's buying a franchise. On the podcast, a couple episodes ago, I had a franchise expert, Gary Prenevost, if you get a chance, check out his interview. He helps people find the right franchise opportunity, and that can be from $5,000 up to one and a half million and more, that's a very popular way to get into business, because you're dealing with a template, you're dealing with a proven business model, you're dealing with a brand, you'll pay more for it, you'll pay a royalty, but it's a viable way to get into business. And then there's what you guys are helping to do, and that's entrepreneurship through acquisition or buying a business, which is, I think, a very overlooked opportunity, especially for young people right there are so many businesses for sale out there, and I pulled a couple things from your website, we can talk about this. 76% of small business owners are planning to exit their businesses by 2032 according to a report from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. Big fan of the CFIB. I'm a longtime member as well. There are currently over 54,000 small businesses on the market. I'll say that again, 54,000 small businesses on the market, which is a prime opportunity for new owners, young and old, to step in and take the lead. That stat, by the way, is from our friends and a client of mine, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and their excellent Business Data Lab. Now on your website, Scott, you also talk about this, 42% of small businesses in Canada are owned by baby boomers. And for those who don't know how old baby boomers are, 1947 to 1966, that's the baby boom generation. They built businesses, mostly successful businesses, and now they're retiring, and they're like, Okay, I want to sell the business, creating an opportunity for young people to get involved. So can you tell me a bit about your program, entrepreneurship through acquisition, what you think of the whole thing and how people can get involved?

Scott Stirrett 15:00
I think entrepreneurship through acquisition is one of the most under looked entrepreneurial opportunities out there. And there are many reasons why it often makes more sense to buy a business than to start a new one. One is that an existing business has some of the foundational things, like set up and in some cases, most cases, there's like, demonstrated product market fit. So it's an often a lot less risky to buy something that is already existing than to start something up completely from scratch.

The second reason why I think it's a really compelling opportunity is for many people, they are better entrepreneurs at take building an existing thing than starting from scratch. Some people are really good at the starting from scratch stage. But I think if you're reflecting about how you're somebody who's more effective at refining existing systems and making them excellent than starting something from scratch, I think eta is a great path for you.

Roger Pierce 15:58
Excellent points. And for those who are wondering, oh, wait a minute, you know, how do I find one of these businesses? What does it cost? There's stuff out there for any budget. Some of the more popular websites to find a business for sale are businessesforsale.com.

Roger Pierce 16:12
That's an easy one to remember. I like to go to bizbuysell.com. That's another broker website. It's like a marketplace, like Facebook, marketplace for small business sales. You can also go to our friend friends at Fran Net, that's where you find frannet.com. That's where you find resale franchises. So you know, you don't just have to buy a mom and pop business for sale. You might want to buy a franchise that's up for sale. That's another, another valid option. And of course, to your own network, your accountant, your lawyer, your banker, your parents, accountant, lawyer, banker, people you know. You say, hey, I'm interested in buying a business. You'd be surprised what might come your way.

Scott Stirrett 16:49
The one thing, just to expand on what you were saying on that last point, is, I think most of the highest quality businesses for sale are ones that are not publicly listed. So if you're looking to buy a business, think about engaging people in your network and being vocal and put your flag out and say, Hey, I'm looking to buy a business. And there might be great opportunities that come your way that otherwise you wouldn't find on bizbuysell or these other websites.

Roger Pierce 17:17
Excellent point. You know your network is your net worth, as they say, and you put something out there, it might come back to you. I've also heard of entrepreneurs go, you know, cold calling a Mom and Pop business, and say, hey, I'm interested in your business. Would you talk to me about selling it?

Scott Stirrett 17:32
Yeah,in eta, they call this proprietary search. So doing cold email and reaching out to a lot of sellers and or prospective sellers. It often that's the way to find like the best deals. The two things I would kind of caution though, in doing this is one, it is super time intensive, and it often requires you reaching out to like 10,000 plus small businesses. So you have to build like a marketing funnel to engage so many different people. The second kind of issue with proprietary search is that, let's say you meet a company, they're interested in selling. If you're engaged them in this cold capacity, it's tough to know whether they authentically do want to sell and if they also have realistic expectations, versus if the seller has engaged a broker, the broker has likely worked with them for like, six to 12 months on understanding the business, valuing the business, and the broker, if they're high quality, has likely only taken them on as a client if they actually think that the owner actually wants to sell.

So proprietary deal flow can create really good deal opportunities. But it's also important to be aware that it's super time intensive, and there is a good chance that you might go almost all the way to the end with a seller and then the back out at the last minute, or the deal falls through for a variety of reasons.

Roger Pierce 18:53
There's no guarantee, you're right. Be patient. Be patient, and engage professionals too. Like you said, a business broker is key, because you want somebody to independently value the business and make sure you're not overpaying, do the due diligence. That's what these professionals are for. You know, I went on one of the one of the websites, bizbuysell.com, I think, and pulled up a couple of businesses for sale, just for conversation, and then the Peel Region of Ontario, for $220,000 you can buy a dog daycare and grooming business with a cash flow of $43,000 so there you go. So not only do you get a business that's up and running, you know, and established, got a little shop, little storefront, there's some cash flow there. It's mighty attractive when you're first getting into business, or if you're out in the west coast, Nanaimo in BC, there's a Mathnasium Learning Center. I've never heard of them. Maybe you have for available for sale for $99,000 I imagine that's some kind of student tutoring center, right? So this is just it. There are, and you go on these websites just to play around, you can see type in any dollar amount, type in any location, Canada, US, and just see what's out there. It's kind of fun.

Scott Stirrett 19:57
One of the things I find so interesting. In in the ETA space, is that the more you learn about entrepreneurship through acquisition, the more you learn about all these different kinds of businesses that exist, from scaffolding firms to unique like HR service providers to niche manufacturers. There is literally any business kind of under the sun that is for sale. And a big part of, I think, doing a successful search is getting a sense of what is the exact kind of business that you want to buy, and having this balance of both being specific but also not being too specific that you're overly limiting your search.

Roger Pierce 20:36
Good tips. So have an objective in mind, a type of business, but be a little flexible, what you're saying, how you go about it, that's so key. Can you expand a bit more on how the ETA program works? I mean, I know you've got, like, a process you guys go through, you train people, you can elaborate a bit more.

Speaker 1 20:53
Venture for Canada has a program called the Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition Academy, called the ETA Academy, and in that course, over five weeks, we teach people the fundamentals of what is involved in buying a business, and that includes content on what is entrepreneurship through acquisition, the difference between a search fund and self funded search. How do you actually go out and search for a company once you found a company? How do you negotiate with a seller. How do you raise the financing to buy a company? For context, most deals you want to probably finance them 40 to 60% with debt. So figuring out how to work with banks is really important. How to get equity investment to help you buy a business, how to negotiate a seller's note, which is essentially the seller lending money to you. So there's a lot of different moving parts. And then once you buy a business, what's it like in the first 90 days? So this course is pretty intensive. It's over five weeks. It's around five to 10 hours per week for the participants. And in our first cohort, we have 29 participants from all across Canada that are participating, and the course is taught by 35 different individuals who have extensive expertise in buying businesses or being lawyers in the lower middle market, or accountants various service providers. So that's one of the great things about the course. It's taught by people who have the lived experience of actually doing it.

Roger Pierce 22:17
Wow. So you're saying, like all these professionals come into the program and teach that kind of how to look over legal agreements or how to get financing, like you get specific experts in there.

Speaker 1 22:27
Yeah, the course is all taught by people who have expertise in entrepreneurship through acquisition.

Roger Pierce 22:32
Wow. I told you earlier, too, I had a program years ago that helped people start a business like learn how to start one from scratch, typically, but this is something new. I've never heard of a program that helps you buy a business. And there are so many things to know, right? The financing thing, maybe you can comment on that. I mean, in your experience, Scott, do banks like lending money to an existing business situation rather than a startup?

Scott Stirrett 22:57
I think if you have a compelling business case, then it is likely easier to get a loan to buy an existing business than it is to start something up from from scratch, just because, when you're starting something up from scratch, there's like no proven like model, unless you have a lot of assets that can be collateralized. Likely banks are not as willing to kind of play ball versus if you can find a business that has really strong cash flows that you can prove with a high degree of likelihood that that business will be able to service the debt payments, then a bank is a lot more willing to to play ball. That being said for listeners, it's not easy to get these these loans like you really need to find a deal that is compelling. And if a bank, or all the banks, refuse to give you money to buy the business, it's also probably a good signal for yourself that it's not a good business to buy.

Roger Pierce 23:52
Good point, good point. Now, as part of the program, do you help introduce to possible financers?

Scott Stirrett 23:57
We have a fair number of people who work in commercial lending, in financing these deals, involved in panels and teaching content as part of the course. So yes, folks do meet bankers through the ET Academy.

Roger Pierce 24:10
Fantastic. And what? What's the intake? When's the next intake coming up? Or what's the cycle like?

Scott Stirrett 24:15
We haven't confirmed the date of the next one. TBC, this first cohort is our first pilot, so once we wrap it up, we'll have a little bit of a sense of the dates of the next one, but there'll be a likely one that's in Alberta later this year.

Roger Pierce 24:28
Fantastic. And are these? Are these virtual? Are these in person?

Scott Stirrett 24:32
They're hybrid. So the first day is in person, and then it's three times a week, approximately virtually. And then at the end, there's another in person day. So in designing this, we didn't want it to make it 100% virtual, but we also recognize people have busy lives, so we're trying to get a balance of you get to build meaningful relationships with people through in person interactions, but most of the content is delivered live via Zoom.

Roger Pierce 24:58
That's amazing. Know everything I need to know about buying a business all in one spot. The best course of action is to go to Venture for Canada.ca and sign up for the newsletter, or get on the list to get informed about what's happening with the program?

Scott Stirrett 25:12
Yeah, that's the best way. And we'll include details on our mass newsletter when the next eta Academy application launches.

Roger Pierce 25:20
Love to hear this innovation all helping people get into entrepreneurship. Fantastic. So looking at the clock too, we gotta head towards the wind down Scott but I'm gonna ask you about what's what's ahead for VFC, and can you share some of your aspirations or exciting things you've got on the horizon.

Scott Stirrett 25:36
The thing that excites me the most now is venture for Canada playing a big role in training people across Canada to learn how to buy businesses. There is a lot involved in buying a business successfully, and right now in Canada, there's virtually no training that is being provided to Canadians to pursue this path. Versus in the United States, there is a ton of training options, and I think there's a real opportunity for Venture for Canada to be a leader in entrepreneurship through acquisition training, and not just doing that through our ETA Academy, but also doing that through other training programs in the future.

Roger Pierce 26:09
Absolutely. Did you say you go into the states as well?

Scott Stirrett 26:14
We don't, but there's a lot of American eta training courses out there. So Americans have access to a ton of eta training currently in Canada. It is very limited.

Roger Pierce 26:23
Okay, you guys want to be at the forefront of this and bringing it out to more and more people. Absolutely, that's fantastic. And congratulations on the book. Will you come back and talk to us once the book is published? I think you said the summer for The Uncertainty Advantage.

Scott Stirrett 26:37
Yeah, the book goes live August 19 and yeah, we'd love to come back The Uncertainty Advantage is a guide for early career professionals on how to learn to thrive in our uncertain world. Because whether it's AI or tariffs or climate change, there is a ton of uncertainty in the world, and we can't choose the amount of uncertainty, but we can choose how we respond to it. And the book goes through six pillars of advice and is guided by my own personal experiences, both thriving in uncertainty in some situations, but also having really significant challenges with uncertainty at other points in my life.

Roger Pierce 27:14
That's terrific. I look forward to getting a copy myself. I'll even get you to sign it for me. Well, listen, we're gonna wrap up, but can you tell us a couple ways to get in touch if someone wants to reach out?

Scott Stirrett 27:26
Yeah, if you're interested in Venture for Canada, I recommend you check out Venture for Canada.ca, if you're interested in learning more about my work or The Uncertainty Advantage, I recommend that you check out ScottStirrett.com and you can learn more about that book via that website.

Roger Pierce 27:42
Fantastic, and I'll be sure to put those links in the show notes as well. Well, listen. That's it for now. Thanks again, Scott and to our listeners, thank you for being here, and be sure to return next time for more insights from The Unsure Entrepreneur Podcast.

Intro 27:57
That's it for this episode of The Unsure Entrepreneur Podcast. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss other candid conversations with small business owners, and be sure to check us out at UnsureEntrepreneur.com.