The Unsure Entrepreneur

Unsure Entrepreneur_Janine Harris_S1E4

Mon, Apr 15, 2024 6:07PM • 34:01

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
work, janine, business, entrepreneur, client, video, network, roger, great, partner, thick skin, people, part, good, money, meant, freelancers, idea, toyota, bni

00:01
Hi everyone and welcome. I'm Roger Pierce, host of the unsure entrepreneur podcast. Thank you for joining us here today. I'm so happy to introduce to you Janine Harris. Hi, Janine. Hi, Roger, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. I really appreciate you taking the time to be here today. My pleasure. Let me just give a little background on you so we can tell the folks what you're all about.

00:25
Janine is the owner of key ring media, a Toronto based animation and live video production company that works with clients both small and large, including BMW, Toyota, Drake International and Nickleby is convenience. Janine is a multi talented media producer with extensive experience across various roles, including corporate and web video production, television, and video audio editing. She stands out for her ability to make clients feel comfortable in front of the camera for creativity, solution, finding abilities, and her knack for delivering quality projects on budget. And I personally know how awesome Janine and her company is because I've worked with her to produce some of my own business videos.

01:09
I hope I got that right. Excellent introduction.

01:13
Some of those clients that were are a little older than the most current ones. But yes, that is me. Good to know, great client list. I know you're always serving new clients. So no doubt, there are lots more to add.

01:28
So Janine, the podcast is all about, you know, exploring entrepreneurship and your early, early days getting into entrepreneurship, and then you know, what you're experiencing now as an experienced entrepreneur, so I got to poke and prod a little bit if that's okay. Absolutely. To add to the bio I just shared, let's start, can you tell me more about the customers you serve and what your business is all about?

01:52
Okay, sure.

01:54
Just to put some

01:58
timing around this, I started the company in 2008. So we celebrated our 15th anniversary in October.

02:06
Thank you, which was very exciting. And it was also a pivotal change for us. Because, you know, like many entrepreneurs, I started out as a solopreneur.

02:17
In about 2017, I had a very, very talented editor animator working with me, and he came on board, that changed. And he came on board as a partner to be honest, and that just sort of changed the company. So when we celebrated our 15th anniversary, there was a sort of a shift in the customers we're going after. And we've really started to look at larger organizations that we've, we've kind of built to a point where we're positioned to actually service larger organizations. So interestingly enough, you mentioned Toyota in the, in the introduction, and we got a project with them in our first year. And we are still doing that same project 15 years later, which is a regular series to educate salespeople on selling cars. And it's put out to the dealerships from Toyota, Toyota, Canada.

03:18
We have done some terrific work in

03:24
sort of nature oriented, where we worked with Nature Conservancy of Canada, to explain some very complex

03:34
carbon and monitoring and having space that is protected. And so we did that. And we still work with smaller organizations with solutions that work for them and video, but that of course, if changed, because technology's changed. So yeah, it's, it's, it's a bit of a moving target. Roger, I gotta tell you,

03:57
I love your variety of clients. And I love the fact you've got some repeat long term clients doesn't surprise me. But how important is that for an entrepreneur for a business to have that recurring revenue? Right? Huge, huge, very important. That's one of the things I always advise new entrepreneurs look for a business model where you can get that repeat order. Yeah, better yet subscription business too, right? Yeah. And having some name, some power in the names of the companies that you're working, you get that one good client, and even if it costs you a little bit to secure that client,

04:31
if you can prove that you can deliver to them and you keep them happy for as you know, 15 years or however long one entrepreneur wants to be in business. It's a good it's a little bit of gold. When it got me curious, how do you come across such great clients?

04:49
Well,

04:51
back 15 years ago, I was smart enough, happily smart enough to get involved in a networking group

04:59
with

05:00
where we met actually, Roger, you remember? Yeah. But I recommend that to any business owner is, is networking is key. I don't think you can rely on digital marketing alone. I don't, you know, as an entrepreneur, so much of the work that we do, and if you're the same, I know that people, people like to do business with people. And as entrepreneurs, we're the people. So we have to be out there meeting other people.

05:27
Some of my best business relationships, and friendships have come from that BNI networking group. We were a part of Janine so many years ago, including. Yeah, exactly. We've kept on kept up over the years. It's terrific. And you're right. But everything is so important. It can't all just be computer screens. No, now that we're allowed to go see people face to face, why not do it? Yeah. And there's power to network. I mean, the beautiful thing about networking now, since COVID, is that we can go to networking events on our computer screens, we don't have to leave our homes, office, home, whatever, you know, yeah. Yeah, that's it's got the best of both worlds in a way. So back to the inception of the business. What was it? I mean, you worked in the in the biz for a while, right? How did you? How did you transition into into self employment,

06:18
I had this great idea that I had taken to my boss, I was working in a video production and post production house a big, big, bigger shop. And I had this great idea that

06:30
all these all these cameramen that were working on television, were facing downtime when their TV shows were up. But they were really great cameraman, and they were happy to do anything. And I thought, well, wouldn't it be great to have these guys doing corporate shoots, like CO messages, and I called them quick crews.

06:52
And I thought it was a great idea. Because we had camera equipment, we had the network of we were doing television series at the time, we had the network of cameraman. And my boss just wasn't interested. And I thought, I think this is a good idea.

07:09
I yeah, I resigned. And I was, again, really fortunate relationships are everything. My boss,

07:17
and his partner, both of them were super supportive of my initiative. And for the first year, they would lend me space in cameras to do stuff. And that's when I first developed video days, which you're familiar with. And that was with the help of them, because they gave me access to, to equipment that I didn't have access to, and I didn't really have budget for. So I was able to develop a product that I was able to sell to people. That was no risk for me to embark on.

07:52
Why are you telling me that your former employer, you freedom not only not acknowledged that you're starting a business, in that industry? Gave you support and facilities and resources to help you get going? Yes, yes, absolutely. And what's funny today is that one of the partners, he retired, and he is my lead cameraman today. So I worked for them for 10 years, but he's worked for me for 15. That's a great story. And so important. And this is the kind of stuff we want to talk about, you know, you don't have to people think going to quit my job and jump right in. And that's risky. What you did was so smart, you transitioned out of your paid job right into your own business, and in a very rare situation, got your employer to actually help you along that path. Yeah, and let's be clear, I did leave my job and I was not paid. Sure. So

08:54
everything was, I mean, I made no money the first year, let's be real clear.

09:01
There wasn't a lot to you know, you you are jumping in from having security to having nothing.

09:07
And I just at that time, because I think this is important is that I just made a deal with myself that every day I would talk to somebody new. It didn't have to be a client. It just had to be somebody that I would connect with. Because otherwise it's a dark place.

09:26
Yeah, we can go a little crazy working on our own. I know. Yeah. So how did you handle that? No income of feeling alone, isolated, obviously reached out to talk to people, but that's a scary thought for a lot of aspiring entrepreneurs.

09:41
The whole time and when I say there was no money, not only so I had quit my job. My husband was working with a startup and I think six months into me starting key ring media. My husband's startup ran out of money that he was working for and he was just told on a Friday. Yeah, we're out

10:00
money.

10:01
And so it, I was a lot of fake it right? Because I didn't want to tell anybody that just incredibly broke I was the only thing I spent money on was BNI and networking and taking people out for coffees, I had no money. We had two small children five and two.

10:23
It was it was it was the hardest year. But I kept saying, you know, this was, it just felt so right to do it. I knew that I was meant to.

10:35
And that's all I could. That's all I knew. I just knew that I was meant to do this, and I just had to keep charging forward. But you can't sit on your laurels. You just can't sit and wait. What do you mean, you knew what you meant to was it? I know you have passion for this, but you're talking about something a little more like a calling.

10:55
I just knew that it was the right time. And and let me be clear, it wasn't about the business that I was running. It was just I was meant to be my own boss, I was meant to be self employed to start a company. And

11:10
yeah, you could call it a calling. I just, I just felt like it was it was meant to be I wouldn't have been guided this way if I wasn't supposed to do it.

11:20
That's terrific. I don't know what to say. But it's brutal. Like don't kid you know, if entrepreneurs are listening to this. It's it's, you just gotta believe in yourself. Because there's gonna be days, right. I mean, Roger, did you have days when you came out? Absolutely. And there been lots of businesses in my past and all have been kind of underfunded and some of them foolhardy.

11:47
I like to think I've learned from those over the years. But you know, you talk about having no money. So you didn't raise any nose and other traditional financing startup, get some money from the bank just went for it. Wow. kids and a husband also also in transition was a grim Christmas. Let me tell you, I did everything on I used every Aeroplan card airmiles card. Every gift came from any points I had. Yeah, no, it. I did not. I did not finance it there. Nobody was going to finance it. There was nothing to finance. Video Production is expensive.

12:23
Back then, well, no, because I think the business model that I chose was very different for the time, I didn't want to own equipment, i Everything was rent as needed. Hire as needed. Freelancers, build up my network, I had such a phenomenal network of talented individuals that wanted to work with me. I also paid

12:47
every bill upon receipt, or I never took terms on and I still don't I still don't take terms from my my freelancers. They send me an invoice I pay them.

13:00
Treat them, right, treat them, right. And I don't ask for favors unless I need favors. So when I have budget when the clients have budget when we can do this right? To pay, right? I do that. And then when when I need a little favor, because we're doing something on spec or, you know, there's a smaller client who's trying to get up and going, then I can, then I can navigate and negotiate.

13:29
So looking back on that uncertain period, transitioning from paid work and your own business, what would you do differently? What would you tell someone else maybe embarking on that path?

13:42
I don't know if there's? I don't, I can't even imagine an easy path. You know, when I when when you think of it because it is scary. Mm hmm. I think having a partner is great.

13:55
And bringing in Charlie, who, you know, you have to vet your partner as well. And you have to have a partnership agreement. But having a partner having somebody invested in the same thing as you emotionally invested. I don't mean financially invested, but just emotionally invested in the same thing. That is huge. And a lot less lonely.

14:16
You found synergy together. Oh, yes.

14:20
And Charlie, does he have complementary skill set? Like maybe you're good at technical. He was good at sales or vice versa? Yeah. So I would be sales, he would be technical. Okay. And I direct so I handle more of the live action, and he's all about the post production. He's our creative director. So where I be the executive producer, he's a creative director. And together it's not just about our complementary skills in business, but we have very similar beliefs, values that guide our business. Can you give me an example? Well, the idea

15:00
of paying freelancers right away and paying them well and making it a good working environment, working on things that we care about. Work life balance. We are by no means rich entrepreneurs. But I'm very happy with the life I live lead. And he has to. And I think that to me is the reason. You know, I have a reason to get up in the morning that I love my business. But I, I don't feel stressed, I never come home and say, Oh, my gosh, what a horrible day. I have amazing. Like, I love all of my clients. I love every person that I work with. And I can honestly tell you, I don't talk to a lot of people who have as great experiences I do. So

15:45
I think that's, that's the magic.

15:49
That's a joke. But entrepreneurs wake up and we say thank God, it's Monday.

15:56
It's true. It's crazy. You've touched on so many great points there. And yeah, I've got a book I'm working on of the same name. And we talked about the book entrepreneurial life, you mentioned that I love this life that I have, can you share a bit more what that means for you on a day to day? I mean, wake up excited. You wake up enthused? What's different than, say, a nine to five?

16:22
A lot. I know, but yeah, it's close to your heart, you know? Yeah. Well, I think it's the, I run the business the way and I treat, I have employees now. And I treat people the way I would want to be treated. And, you know, I've had some, you know, wild bosses in the past. I also I like the idea of, of freedom to pursue

16:50
what inspires me. And even though we, you know, entrepreneurs, in this small business space, don't talk about innovation. The truth is, we are innovating all the time, we're innovating on the way we do our processes, the way we serve our customers, the way we deliver our products or services. And I think that's really exciting to be able to change on a dime, because we want to and not get stuck in, especially in larger organization, there's a lot of red tape to go through to, to change something. Whereas we get to, I had a colleague who at one point said, he says, I think you love business more than you love video. The video just happens to be the business you're in, but you love business. And that's stuck with me, because I think I do business. It's sort of an art form.

17:45
That's interesting. Yeah. Well, it also means, you know, if you decided to switch into another, another industry one day, you'd have the same skills. Right, exactly. Because you've got business skills and the video skills. So that's, that's a winning combination. Yeah. So tell me I mean, I'm looking at my notes here to what, you talked about family.

18:05
Too often, family and friends are skeptical

18:09
of entrepreneurs with an idea to pursue their own business. What was it like for you? I mean, here you were jumping in, did your family support you? Or were they like, Oh, you're crazy. Go back to your job. Well, my husband and I have been entrepreneurial since we met. I think, since the beginning, one or one of us has always been self employed.

18:29
So we've always been a little bit creative that way.

18:33
So yeah, there was no question about it that like I said, the first year was hard, but I was younger. I don't know that I could do it today. It was a lot younger.

18:44
And your, your extended family or your relatives were there, like, go for it, or were they? Yeah, well, we have a very small, extended family. But my father is also an entrepreneur, which is probably where I got my drive for business. I saw him he started his business when I was 16. And I admired him so much. And he was a consultant. And he was working up until he was 82. He was still doing consulting and still going traveling across Canada and and getting in front of big groups and I just like he's got it down. He's just got it down. So So yes, I had a lot of support. My friends, however, the friends who work normal jobs they they did not understand they didn't understand me not having money and then not giving up and becoming a Walmart greeter.

19:34
You know, why? Why would you do this to yourself, Janine, why would you be in this horrible situation? And as as financially horrible as it was, it was just so wonderful to wake up in the morning and know that whatever was ahead of me that day was of my making.

19:53
If it's to be it's up to me, right? Well, that's it. I mean, at the end of the day, nothing's impossible.

20:01
But you just you can't, you can't give up on stuff and you can't, it's easy to sit and rock yourself and just sort of, please make it go away.

20:11
You're what I would call a very positive person. And that's part of the secret sauce. There are very many dark days for entrepreneurs that go through the startup process, as you know. So what what do you do to lift your spirits to bring yourself up to get that positive? Janine back in the room?

20:30
Well, I think

20:33
I, you know, the joke would be I, you know, a bottle of wine, but no, it's not. It's not that at all.

20:41
No, well, coffee. Yes, it's a big part of my life. But it's volunteering. Oh, I've had a long career of volunteering. And

20:52
you know, it's rewarding. I mean, ideally, volunteering with things that you're interested in. So I've done scouts, I still do scouts, even though I have no kids in scouts.

21:02
But yeah, I like to volunteer and get involved in the community. And that keeps me grounded, I guess, and keeps me like, oh, you know, other stuff is going on in the world, besides my business in my woes.

21:17
But I Roger, let me tell you, though, after that first year,

21:21
it turned around, and I've never looked back, I

21:25
think it was one year, and it wasn't like, I've not had hard times.

21:31
Since then, just to be clear. That's amazing. So what was the pivotal point? What what changed during that early stage?

21:43
Well, you know, one part of the story I didn't include is that I did actually start the business with a partner. And after the first year, she was going to have a baby. And she realized that she couldn't do baby and baby business at the same time. And so she left after a year. And at that point, there was something that happened in me, even though I've said, you know, get a partner, maybe not start with a partner, because I like to make decisions, it was a lot easier for me to make big decisions, and pivot and do all the things. So I was able to make decisions about what I was going to charge for stuff, because it only impacted me, I didn't have to check with anybody. And I started closing business. And I started to, I did a lot of work where we, the company volunteered in return for recognition in return for a logo up. And so I just gotta get the name out there. Got it, you know. So I did everything that was possible without checking with anybody. So I don't say want to say that my partner would have stopped me at the time. But there was something freeing about making all the decisions. And at the end of the day, there was nobody to blame. But me if it didn't work.

22:54
It's a tough call, you know, I've had

22:57
I've had solo businesses, I've sold businesses. I mean, are the synergies of two or three people working together outweigh the disadvantages of group decision making and different agenda and all that stuff? It's a tough call. And I think you're right, I think

23:16
you really have to do what's best for you and, and figure out what's, what's your preferred way to work?

23:23
Partnership is okay. In the beginning, I think it's helpful to get momentum for the business. But the older I get, the more comfortable I am kind of flying solo. Yeah, you know it. And whereas I had the opposite. So I did, you know, 12 or 13 years solo, no, 10. I don't know what it was. But I did a number of years solo. And then I brought him in, but I knew him. So well. We had been working. In fact, he was an intern that I'd hired at that company that I told you, I'd worked at and left. I hired him as an intern way back 20 plus years ago. And he was just such a talent then that when he became a freelancer, it just became so obvious that I gotta snatch that up. That's going to be the secret sauce. So that's cool. And that's part of the joys of self, the journey of small business people come in and out of your life and your business. Yeah, you know, so what I mean, on that note, I mean, they say smooth running a small business changes us. How has it changed you if at all, or what are some of the lessons you've learned or insights about yourself? Maybe because you're an entrepreneur, I found out that I really liked to be right.

24:32
That I actually think I'm right most of the time. And that I have to take a step back and say, Well, maybe I'm not right, because there's real there's real benefit in knowing that. You know, I may not be right.

24:47
Roger, I'm just gonna stop. I hear beeping Do you hear beeping? Nope. Okay, sorry. You'll have to, you'll have to edit this out. But it's it's like recurring beeping. I don't know where it's coming from.

25:00
All right. I hope it's not being recorded as all. Okay, we'll figure it out.

25:06
I'll chop it out. Thanks. Timestamp. 25 minutes. Okay.

25:11
I love your answer that last question. Okay. I was gonna ask you here too. Oh, sorry. Yeah, I derailed us. So yes, bing, bing, right, is probably the hardest thing I've, and it's only recently, it's taken me this long to realize

25:28
it's not a bad thing. I mean, that's confidence. That's, you know,

25:34
yeah, but it can be a hindrance to and I think when you get to a certain point, if you really like I'm at a point where I want to grow now, I have to accept that I don't know everything. That's very scary. And it's scary, right? Because 15 years, like, I know what I'm doing, I'm gonna do this, and I've done it. So to be able to say, maybe I don't know what I'm doing for the next phase, and bring in the people that you actually need and the support that you actually need. And if I'm not going to write social posts, get somebody to write social posts or, you know, get content that, you know, be realistic.

26:10
I think that's brilliant, delegate your weaknesses and play to your strengths.

26:15
Right, we can't know it all. That's part of the the pressure can tell I tell entrepreneurs, you know, expect to be marketing, sales, accounting, production,

26:26
washing the bathrooms at night, you know, all that stuff. If you're coming from a job, there's different people in the organization to do specific tasks. That's the nature of a company, there's so much to do change the, the the toner in the printer.

26:39
When you're an entrepreneur for the first time, it all falls on you. And we get overwhelmed because we have to be all these roles. But as you pointed out, you don't necessarily maybe at the beginning, you got to multitask. But the sooner you can afford to delegate, the better because there's going to be people out there who do stuff differently, or better than we do. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it goes back to that whole networking thing.

27:05
I talked to friends who are now thinking about branching out on their own, and they're like, oh, I don't like sales. I don't do so I've never sold a video to somebody. Like, it's not like, you can go round and open your jack and say here, just like a video, like nobody's gonna buy. And it's a case with most of our services. What we're doing is filling a need. But we're also through that networking, discovering all these amazing people who can help us.

27:34
Right, so you net where to get business, possibly, but your network to meet amazing people.

27:41
And that's part of the joy of entrepreneurship is just your extended family, your work family, that people I think to myself when I meet someone, okay, how can I help them? And maybe how can I how can they play a part in what I'm trying to achieve? That's fun, right? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I highly recommend it to everybody. You just have to have a thick skin and, and be humble and

28:04
six skin in terms of what being an entrepreneur? Yeah. Okay. Can you expand on that? Listen, there's no, I don't think there's an entrepreneur who hasn't had a job gone wrong. Right, you know, when it goes wrong, and your client is so disappointed.

28:20
I hate you know, it's hopefully a rare thing. But it does happen. Either. You just didn't expect what was needed or whatever. And some clients can be mean.

28:34
Well, what I discovered early on is that well, mean clients aren't my style. So if a client is inclined to mean, I don't have mean clients, like I said, I have great clients.

28:47
So having this the thick skin I talked about as a being able to handle that kind of disappointment where somebody is disappointed in you.

28:56
But also the thick skin to admit that you're wrong.

29:00
Like admit when something goes wrong, take ownership of it and fix it.

29:05
Fix it. Everybody respects it. And if the person if the client doesn't respect the fix, they're not the client for you. Well, they're not the client for me, you can have whatever client you want Roger, is there going to be mean to me, I'm not going to, ya know, but yeah, you know, you've got to, you've got to be able to say, Oh, this is very disappointing, and I have to give away something for free to solve this problem. Or I have to do something that I don't really want to do, but I'm going to do it. Because it's the right thing to do for this client.

29:35
There's always going to be you got to do it. You got to be it's like the Disney mantra, right? Like client comes first client comes first. When you're an entrepreneur, it doesn't matter how much. Like I said, I think I'm right most of the time. It doesn't matter how much I think I'm right. The client is always right. The client is always right.

29:54
It is it is the client is always right. And it's our job to make sure they're happy.

30:01
Great attitudes on customer service. And that was one of my questions, you

30:07
know, it's good. I know we've, we're coming close to the end here. But yeah, tell me what's, what's a piece of advice you give to someone who's considering so very much of the ideation, the exploration stage way back when for you, someone thinking about starting a business, what would you tell them?

30:28
This may not be the normal answer that you might get. But again, it goes back to that.

30:35
That people part of it, I think my biggest piece of advice, and I've given this to many people who have approached me about this is go and talk to people.

30:46
See if you're any good at just talking about your idea. A lot of people want to hold their idea sacred.

30:56
But the truth is, if you if you can build that network, if you have good advisors, positive people in your life, who can give you an honest answer or, or even just explore,

31:08
I think talking to them as the first point because they'll point out things that you don't want to hear, probably. And they'll also get excited about the things that they're excited about. Right. So talking to people is the first step. And then once you've started, I do tell, you know, that idea of talk to somebody new every every single day.

31:27
If I get into a low period, or I'm feeling a little down, I reinforced that one mantra, I have to talk to somebody new every day.

31:39
That was COVID. That's how I got through COVID. Like you did back at the beginning of your business, just like at the beginning. Yeah. I love that answer about sharing your idea. Now, what do you say to the entrepreneurs who say yeah, but someone could steal it?

31:54
If somebody can steal it that easily, then it's not that good of an idea. Gotcha. Because, and again, it goes down to who are used. Yeah. Why anybody can do video, what makes me unique about the video is the way that I do video, the way I service the clients, the way I think about the creative. It's my way of doing video, there's lots of other places that do video, right. And you must experience that too, because I know you and I know that you've got this way of talking with people and bringing people on board and this ideation that is going to make people want to work with you over Joe Schmo up down the street who has the same idea.

32:37
Very good points. I love it. You know, you're afraid of sharing your idea what you do is unique. It's not what you do. It's how you do it. Really, it is about how you do it, I think

32:50
Oh, Janine, this has been so good. And that was such a great, great answer. Thank you for that.

32:57
And unfortunately, that's all the time we have. But I want to thank you very much for sharing your journey and experiences and insights with us today. It means a lot to me and to my listeners. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. Thanks for having me. It was nice to reminisce back. Absolutely. Absolutely. And hopefully we get to do it again. But I also want to give you a little plug. So what's the best way for someone to reach you?

Janine
Best way to reach us is to check out our website at www.keyringmedia.com And we are also at key ring media on Instagram with some regular content coming out with neat ideas about video and communications.

Roger
I love all the video samples you have on your website. Very, very well done. work nicely. Oh, thanks so much. I appreciate it. Well, listen. Thanks again, Janine and to our listeners. Thank you so much. And be sure to return again for more insights from the unsure entrepreneur. Have a good day.