The Unsure Entrepreneur

The Unsure Entrepreneur Podcast
S1E6
SPEAKERS
Intro, Roger Pierce, Rachel Ott

Intro 00:00
You're listening to the unsure entrepreneur podcast with Roger Pierce. Whether you're scribbling business ideas on a napkin, or wrestling with this should I shouldn't tie question, get ready to explore the realities, the risks and the rewards of entrepreneurship as we share the stories, scars and successes of small business owners.

Roger Pierce 00:22
Today, I'm thrilled to have Rachel Lott principal Varga girl design joining us. based in Toronto Rachel's Design Studio has been carving out a significant niche in visual and technical design solutions for over two decades, recognized as the top Canadian b2b design firm by clutch.co, Rachel and her team at Varga girl design have helped to shape the visual identities of many, many, many businesses, providing the indispensable value of great design attention to detail, and superfast service. I know all these things to be true because Rachel is my design partner and handles all of my design projects, including the cover art design for this very podcast. And I'm proud to call her a good friend. Welcome, Rachel. Hi, happy to be here. So good to have you here. And you know, we're going to talk about your entrepreneurial journey and how you got started and really poke and prod a bit into what you like about entrepreneurship and what you don't like. But first to give a little context. Aside from my bio there, can you give me some insights into what you do and who you serve?

Rachel Ott 01:21
Yeah, so I would say, I'm a little bit of a rare bird because I was sort of, I've got such a varied background in print and web and design and branding. And, you know, I can get into more detail about that. But I do all kinds of design, I do corporate policy design, I do independent solopreneurs design, I do all kinds of stuff. I mean, the only thing I really don't do illustration. Other than that, I you know, I do trade show materials, I do PowerPoints, I do annual reports, I do websites, I do product, packaging, I do all kinds of stuff. So I'm sort of your one stop shop, I guess.

Roger Pierce 02:04
And you do it so very, very well. One of the things I love working with you is you take careful notes, you pay attention to detail, you really listen to what the client wants. I know you also aren't afraid to stand up and tell the client when they're wrong, we'll get to that later. speak truth to power, but you really do you listen to what the client wants, you're very detailed, you provide a detailed quote, and then estimates where everything's above the board and very professional. Because a lot of love designers out there, you know, it gets kind of vague, and there's project ranges, but you're very clear about it, which I love. And then you know, you always wowed me with the fantastic design elements and things I could never express or think about. And you come up with these solutions for me. And I just, I just trust what you do implicitly. And whenever you have a problem, or whenever I've had a problem in terms of design or layout or something, you're always able to solve it. So

Rachel Ott 02:53
I love hearing it I designed for the client, I really do. And a good example of that is I had a client recently, I was creating an appeal letter for with my writing partner. And she asked if we could design something a little bit ugly, because she felt that when you get those appeal letters in the mail, it's a little bit more of a pull on the heartstrings. It's a little ramshackle, you know, little grassroots looking. And I don't design although I have won awards. That's not That's not what's going on. In the back of my mind when I design I want to make the client happy. So you know, they used Arial for the font. And I made this thing look ugly, it's probably too strong a word, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't as polished as I would have done. For myself. The client was really happy. And it was a it was very successful campaign. So I designed for the client, I always have the client in mind.

Roger Pierce 03:49
You know, you mentioned winning awards. Tell me more about clutch and what that means to people who don't know,

Rachel Ott 03:58
clutch is a really strong marketing tool for me because it is basically based on the reviews from your clients. They're not the kind of thing that you could just have a client go online and type out a few words they are interviewed by clutch. Pretty, I don't know, what is it a 20 minute 30 minute call. And it means a lot to me, first of all, that a client would take that kind of time out of their own schedule, which is probably busy for 30 minutes. And then on top of that, you know, to be really honest and truthful about their experience. So I have a good rating with clutch. I'm one of their top designers, and I'm really proud of that. And on top of that, I'm also proud to say that I've won some International Design Awards. In 2023. I won packaging design for branding marketing. And I just learned a couple of weeks ago that the packaging design for non alcoholic beer in the US that I did has won a new New York Award Design Award, which is an international award, and we went silver, so couldn't be more proud of that.

Roger Pierce 05:07
Tell me more about that campaign, if you can share details. I mean, what that that's fascinating.

Rachel Ott 05:11
Yeah, it was great. So I had a client, who found me through clench, actually, who, down in Florida, lovely woman, entrepreneurs, she just had started this idea of a non alcoholic malt beverage, we talked a little bit, I always start by creating a mood board, so I can kind of anticipate the flavor of kind of the design that she might like. And we quickly came to an agreement of which we thought was the strongest, I designed branding, the logo, the packaging, website. So it was fantastic, you know, as well as like marketing materials to go with it. She was just a pleasure to work with. Just so you know, give her a plug that beer is called devoted. And it's sort of based on that idea that we have a certain amount of responsibility to to honor our bodies and our be healthy and that kind of thing. And it was fantastic. And I'm really proud of the final result. So

Roger Pierce 06:05
is it? Is there a sample on your website of this campaign?

Rachel Ott 06:08
Not yet. But I think if you go to drink devoted.com, you can see the results, you know,

Roger Pierce 06:16
this something I want to expand on too, because here we have you an expert and visual graphic design. I'm a words guy, I can't put two pictures together to save my life. But what is the importance of the role of visual identity and good branding? For a small business? How important is that to their success? Ah,

Rachel Ott 06:36
so important. It's the thing that represents you when you're not there in person to represent yourself. It's sort of the unspoken salesperson. And I think I've personally bought products just based on the branding or the packaging. And I really think you can be good at a lot of things in business, you can be a great business person doesn't mean you're great at branding. So hire a professional. And you're also frankly, you're too close to it to really see it. Like I have a good example of a client years ago, created a machine that would print a label that you could attach to your bottle of wine that talked a little bit about the vintage, you know, pairing notes and stuff. And he put a picture of a bottle of wine on the label. And I said to him, now why would you do that? You're putting it on a bottle of wine, happy birthday, or congratulations or like give the give the user options that will be like, Oh, my goodness, I don't have a gift. I'm going to run in the SBL. Grab a bottle and a label that says Happy Birthday done. Right? He couldn't see that though. He couldn't see the bottle of wine was just redundant, because he's too close. He's right in the forest. He doesn't say the truth.

Roger Pierce 07:52
And you know what, in terms of standing out to and competitiveness, it's absolutely crucial. That's an advantage small business owners need, right?

Rachel Ott 07:59
Yeah, absolutely. And every advantage you get, yeah,

Roger Pierce 08:04
because we don't have a big bucket full of money, like bigger companies, we need all these advantages. So investing in good design is a competitive advantage of strength, isn't it?

Rachel Ott 08:12
Sure, of course. And it's how you communicate. So you want to make everything as clear as possible, right? There are websites you can go to where I still don't know what the people do. It's filled with marketing speak, or whatever it is. That's your responsibility as a business owner, if you can't communicate it and hire somebody that can

Roger Pierce 08:30
so true. And you know, what do you say, I know your prices are always very reasonable. And often I'm surprised at how affordable things aren't to get designed up or laid out. But what do you say to an entrepreneur says, oh, no, my brother Bill is pretty good. And Photoshop, he can probably put together my logo. What do you say to people like that? Well,

Rachel Ott 08:49
I mean, look, it can be very expensive to make cheap decisions. Sometimes. I've kind of I've had many clients come to me to redo something that was done on the cheap. And then where are you? Yeah, spend the money invest, because you got to live with it for a long time, too. So you better love it. The other thing is, when I'm creating branding for somebody, I keep going and if it takes, God forbid puppet Baba pup, but sometimes it takes you know, 30 iterations before we get there, then then it takes 30 iterations, right? I mean, I work until it's loved. work until it's loved. You know, I

Roger Pierce 09:25
do a lot of my businesses words primarily so we, you know, same kind of thread we keep editing until the client is happy, when that can make many, many iterations to what you said earlier was so important. You got to this is your identity to the world. You got to love it. You got to be proud of it. It's going to help you get out there and achieve sales because you feel good about this new look, right?

Rachel Ott 09:45
Yeah, absolutely. Like you're creeping on other people's branding. If you're looking at your competitors and jealous of what they've got, well then that's no good.

Roger Pierce 09:55
Can you give us an insight into you know, I mean, it's take a logo for example, What are some simple things people should remember when they're assessing or considering a logo, like, don't want to get to specifics about colors or unless on a case by case basis, but is it ideal to use maybe two colors Max as opposed to four colors is it better to use one or two elements rather than four?

Rachel Ott 10:17
You know, you can't really have hard and fast rules, but I will say this, the designing a logo now is so different than it was even 10 years ago. Because you're gonna need, you know, probably like an avatar, you're gonna need 20 different versions of this logo, square, long vertical, you've got print, you've got online, you've got low res high as you have black and white, you've got a million different versions, and it has to be super flexible. So what you're really looking for is, first of all, when you get your logo, and I'm not talking about me and talking from anybody, but it better be some branding guidelines to go with it, so that you know exactly how to use it. And you're, you know, you can send it to your brother in law, who's building your, your Wix website, and he can follow the branding guidelines, and make sure that it's adhering to those principles, because when I'm designing, I always want to put it into context. So I always liken it to, if you were selling your house, you went to sell it empty, you'd staged it, you'd put a family room together, you'd put a crib in one of the rooms, it's the same for me when I'm designing a logo, I will show you this is how it's gonna look like in print. And this is how it's going to look burned in the woods of the shed that you're building or whatever it is that the whatever context makes sense. And that's really important. So it's really about flexibility. If you are designing, you have to have that flexibility in mind and how it's going to work out.

Roger Pierce 11:44
Right tips, I remember one piece of advice and advice still applies. Look at the logo draft and the smallest possible form, the business card size, right? Tiny, tiny. And if it still looks good and make sense. That's a good sign. Right?

Rachel Ott 11:57
Yeah. And in the guidelines, I mean, for instance, I'll have a logo that has a tag built in, but then at a certain size, you have to lose the tag, and then maybe there's certain size, it gets cut to two lines or something like that. But all those things are really important. I will say this, I think one of the advantages that I offer as well is that to me, you know, you're a really valued client. And all my clients are, even the clients that maybe are smaller, they mean a lot to me, because that's my bread and butter. If you were going to an agency, if you're going to some huge advertising agency, they'd put the Jr. on that account. It would be very, like, That guy's only spending x number of dollars. They'll prioritize him, right. For me, it's like I'm giving you the wealth of my experience. But the price point is more modest. And the customer service, I kind of built a business model and over delivering on like my people pleaser personality. So that I'm usually very quick to respond. And, you know, like I said, I work until it's right. You

Roger Pierce 13:07
certainly do. And maybe that's a good segue into your slogan, you can explain what that means pretty powerful.

Rachel Ott 13:12
Right? And I can't even take credit, I will give this to my husband, he came up with it. But so rocker girl design, I'll explain it really quickly because no one understands what it means. Alberto Vargas was an illustrator. And in the 40s, he had a contract with Esquire magazine. And he did those illustrations of the women like the very beautiful 40s kind of models. They're very sexy, right? They call them further girls, because his last name was Vargas. So it's a bit of a tribute to that timepiece, because in the 40s, that's when women were entering the workforce because of the Second World War. So they were gaining this independence that they never had, which I love. So it was a time where women were really celebrated, you know, curvy, beautiful women. And it's a little bit of a tribute to my dad who was a fighter pilot. And they used to paint these, not that he fought in the second world war he was, you know, not born yet. But they used to paint them on the side of planes, right? So it's a little bit of a nod to him. So. So the idea is that you can still celebrate beauty and power and independence and all those things. And it's all kind of rolled into one. And that's sort of my company ethos. And that's kind of mine as well, I guess. Now let's look

Roger Pierce 14:31
at your personal startup story. I'm fascinated to hear because I know you've been at this for a long time. But think back to the early stages. Tell us how you got into this crazy life.

Rachel Ott 14:43
Yeah, so I think like I was saying before, I am a bit of a rare bird because I came to Toronto to do graphic design I studied at George Brown and when I graduated, it was a recession. And somebody said to me, you know, maybe you could get a job at a printing company and you'd learn a lot And you know, it's a great way to kind of get your toe in the water. And so I did, I got a job at the largest downtown printing company the time. They actually said to me, and this is funny, because I'm Gen X. And this is kind of a typical Gen X story. My first day of work, my boss said to me, we're going to treat you like crap, we're going to pay you crap. But this will be an invaluable lesson for you. And I thought, okay, and they were true to their word. It was very rough. But I learned the foundations of printing, I really learned so much. I mean, it was incredible. And then from there, I went on to work at some design studios and agencies where I really learned about great design, and what separates average design from something really powerful and typography and kerning, and like finessing things that not every designer knows, I sometimes walk down the street and cringe because I look at the kerning or I look at I go that's not an apostrophe. That's what Mark. But anyway, eventually I got a job at a web company like a web app development kind of right at the top part of the the web bubble, if you if you know what I mean. I think there's probably some younger listeners who are confused now. But in the sort of 2000 era, internet was huge. And companies were just exploding. So it was the art director of this web company and the.com bubble burst. And they said, Well, everyone, we're gonna stay open, but we we can't afford the rent. So you go home and work from home. And that was at a time. I mean, now that seems normal. But back then it was not, it was very unusual. And my first thought was, oh, so perfect, because I've got 10 years now under my belt of doing all these different kinds of work. And I knew that I could take that and leverage it and start my own thing. And then I already had a first client, I had this client that was going to be paying me to work from home. It wasn't long before that kind of fell apart, and they were no longer able to pay me. But I just continued going. So this is where I set the record straight from the PAP McCauley. podcast interview. I was a hot commodity. Even though the web, you know, the.com bubble had burst. I really was a hot commodity. I was being wooed. I was being sought after. But I had decided I was going to do my own thing. The rumors are, according to Pat, a Rachel had no choice. So she started or not another No, I had many choices. I made the decision to start my own company.

Roger Pierce 17:39
For those of you wondering what we're talking about Patrick McCauley was my guest on a previous podcast and is Rachel's husband. And

Rachel Ott 17:45
romantic. Let's roll the tape.

Roger Pierce 17:49
I'm glad you clarified. Yes. So I mean, talk about that, too. Born not made for this life. You mentioned that to me earlier. What do you mean by that?

Rachel Ott 17:58
Yeah, like I think I always had a little bit of that entrepreneurial spirit. And I shared this story with you personally once but my father was in the military and he had to have his boots polished. And I was very young, I was eight maybe I said to him, Okay, I got this, I bought the supplies to polishes bids, and I put them in a box. And I wrote on the box, the Rachel independent Shoe Shine company. And then I came up with the slogan, we've taken the shine to your shoes. And I wrote that on the box. And I He paid me $1 a booth. And, you know, I always had, I think spirit, I always sort of, I think part of it is you're sort of, you're always sort of thinking outside of the box. But at the same time, I've always been an open book and wear my heart on my sleeve. That doesn't really translate that well to working for other people. Because I'm an eye roller. I wonder as people and I also will work incredibly hard. But I expect a little bit of flexibility. And I think the world is different now too. You know, when I started burger girl in 2001, there wasn't that kind of flexibility, they expected you to punch a clock. And I'm not a clock puncher. I've always had that I think sort of a little bit of an attitude, a little bit of an edge. And then maybe a little bit of confidence that I could pull it off somehow.

Roger Pierce 19:31
You said so many wise things here and it really is important for an aspiring entrepreneur to self assess, right, what person they are, how they like to work as you just said, I don't like to punch a clock you know? And that's all part of the equation of going into the decision whether or not to become an entrepreneur. You know, if you think you'd like to work for team and the security in nine to five then God bless you go, go keep that job but if there's something not quite fit if you feel like you're good Have a round peg in a square hole, then maybe you should look at entrepreneurship, right?

Rachel Ott 20:05
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, there's a quote I heard once like, I don't know who I can attribute it to. But they said the definition of an entrepreneur is someone who will work 18 hour days, so that they don't have to work eight hours for someone else. And I think that's me, too. Oh, man,

Roger Pierce 20:20
I know you're working weekends and evenings. I'm going to lead you up to the question. I hope he gives the right answer. But how do you achieve work life balance, Rachel, what do you love to do in your downtime?

Rachel Ott 20:31
Well, that is the challenge. And it is not easy. And especially if you work from home, we did have an office up until COVID. We got rid of the office. And that makes it even harder because the task is right there. It's right there calling to you. And you think I'll just hop on here and take care of a couple of things. But that's hard. I would recommend getting a hobby. And I had to sit down one day and think, What can I do? What can I do? That's not work? Because I had friends doing theater and playing in bands. And I thought, yeah, I need something. I can't, it cannot just be work all the time. So I took up the drums. I think it was about six or seven years ago, that was life changing became my favorite thing. And I literally cannot think about work when I'm drumming. You can't think about anything but drumming when you're drumming. And then the second thing is the dog right? Having a dog. Boy, you can have an important deadline. But when your dog needs to go, your dog needs to go right.

Roger Pierce 21:30
Automatic walks built in.

Rachel Ott 21:31
Yeah, for sure.

Roger Pierce 21:33
Get yourself outside. That's so important. And you know, you got to have that balance. It's tough entrepreneurs will burn out. That's a serious risk. Oh, big time for small business owners. I'm glad to hear you've got some outlets. The other thing you said to me too, I want wants you to expand upon people can be haters. What did you mean by that?

Rachel Ott 21:52
I love this. And it took me years to learn this because I'm one of those people who align better think about a mistake I made 15 years ago and go How can I miss that? How can I oh my god. But you know, what I learned is every entrepreneur that I know, and not even just entrepreneur, but every person that I know that is successful and smart people I really admire and look up to and I just think, wow, you've really got your your shit together, you know, people that are really impressive. All of them have somebody out there that thinks they're a moron. Because it's just not always going to be right. It's not always going to be perfect fit, or mistakes happen. You know, sometimes mistakes happen, or whatever. I mean, we've all lied in bed and thought Why did I say that? What was I thinking? We can't be haunted by this stuff. Because that's just life. And it's kind of a numbers game to you know, if you're doing a career for 30 years, there's going to be a few missteps. That's okay. You can't define yourself by your worst mistake. You have to keep going and learn from

Roger Pierce 23:01
it. Learn from your mistakes, but also Rachel, give yourself some credit for a while you've achieved and let some things go. Yeah, for sure. For sure. can't worry, yeah, mistake 15 years ago. Yeah.

Rachel Ott 23:14
And some people are better than that. And others, I guess I'm in the category of I dwell and dwell on things. But I am a woman. So

Roger Pierce 23:24
you're very particular to detail and I can understand how something from the past would bother you in all fairness, I think going into a new business. And this podcast is for new entrepreneurs and aspiring entrepreneurs. How do you define success? I mean, especially now, as you've achieved so much of it, look at all your clutch awards and recognition, international clients, but how would you define success? Help an entrepreneur define their success? What kind of goals they should go for? I

Rachel Ott 23:49
think that's a really personal question too. Because for some, it might be money. And for others, it might be just mastering a certain craft. Or, for instance, you could be a plaster, that's an art. Those guys are women who dedicate their lives to perfecting that, I mean, it's incredible, something I could never do. So I mean, it really just depends. But I think for me, I've started to feel only recently really, but that I've, I've achieved a certain level of success because I don't have to chase clients that come to me, which is great. And I can turn them down if I feel like it's not a good fit, which is also a privilege. Because you know, you do want to work with people that you're sort of aligned with on different things. And I make enough money that you know, I know what to dinner and I can have a dog and you know, kind of play the drums kick drum lessons. I don't need to live in a mansion. I'm a pretty modest person, but I think that I do like to have you know niceties right and if money is a struggle every month and it was for a long time. That's stressful. So it's great that you can get to a point where maybe that's less of an issue.

Roger Pierce 25:03
I'm so glad you're in that position now and picking up a little piece of nugget that you said a minute ago, turned down clients. Now a lot of new entrepreneurs are very nervous about that. Can you expand on I know, it's because you've been in business for so long, you've got lots of what were choose from. But it's also important for new entrepreneurs carefully consider about who they're working with.

Rachel Ott 25:22
Oh, my God, it's so true. And you know, your gut is always right. It's always right. I've had clients where I could smell the crazy and I go, well, I need the money. I need the client, you know, and I take on the project, and it doesn't work out. And I just think, why didn't I listen? I should have listened to myself, you've got as always right. Hopefully, you know, at the beginning, you have an opportunity to be a little bit careful about who you're working with. I know it's harder when you're struggling. And people could take advantage of that too. Which is unfair, where they go, I know you need the business. So I want 50% discount, or whatever it is, right? Yeah, you gotta be true to yourself. Don't undersell yourself, that just cheapens everything just stick to your guns get good at what you're doing. It's okay to you know, it's okay to discount yourself once in a while. But I think you have to try to really be true to your core values and how you're feeling about things. I mean, there's certain clients, I know, Patrick talked about this to certain clients we're not going to work for and I'm not going to work with tobacco or I'm not going to, you know, there's certain things that I just personally it's not, you know, no judgment, but certain things I'm not going to do. Yeah,

Roger Pierce 26:32
absolutely. And that's one of the joys of self employment, you can pick and choose who you want to work with. Right? I mean, in a job they tell you what to do, or how to where to go, what to what hours you'll keep in your customers, or are the employers customers are not your customers. So you're forced to work with people, right.

Rachel Ott 26:48
And we've all been there, we've all had a really difficult time, and we have no choice. But

Roger Pierce 26:53
for you, as an entrepreneur, you've got this freedom of decision. There's certain

Rachel Ott 26:57
things I don't put up with, there are people out there that are bullies, I will not abide a bully. Pretty powerful. No doubt, I just want to go back to something I talked about into in like my history, and you know, making mistakes and stuff. But to any of the people out there that are considering entrepreneurship, which everyone should is great. But do yourself a favor and learn on someone else's dime. Because I made mistakes early on in my career that someone else had to pay for. You have to reprint the brochures, or you have to you know, you lose a client because you handled it badly or whatever it is doing on someone else's dime. And then when you learn those lessons, or at least a good chunk of them, that's when you can consider I think hanging up your own shingle terrific

Roger Pierce 27:41
advice. So go take a job for six months in the field kind of thing, learn learn the ropes and then strike out on your own.

Rachel Ott 27:47
Exactly. Yeah. And sometimes the things that you screw up or you maybe you don't screw them up, maybe you're just witnessing somebody else struggling. Those can be the most valuable lessons, right? And that's how we have to look at it. fantastic advice.

Roger Pierce 28:01
Fantastic insights here. I can't thank you enough for sharing your time and your wisdom. It means a lot to me. Thank

Rachel Ott 28:08
you so much. It means a lot to me and I still value as a client and even more so as a friend. Well listen,

Roger Pierce 28:15
unfortunately that's all the time we have. I want to thank you very much Rachel ox Barger girl designed for sharing your entrepreneurial journey and experiences with us. Before you go though, if a listener wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that? Yeah,

Rachel Ott 28:29
I think the best way is email me at Rachel at Burger girl design.com And the website again. Wagner girl design.com var GA girl design. super

Roger Pierce 28:41
well. Thank you again, Rachel and to our listeners. Thank you for being here. And be sure to return next time for more insights from the unsure entrepreneur. That's it for now.

Intro 28:52
That's it for this episode of the onshore entrepreneur podcast. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss other candid conversations with small business owners. And be sure to check us out at onshore entrepreneur.com