The Unsure Entrepreneur

The Unsure Entrepreneur Podcast
Surprise and Delight Your Customers, Advises Virtual Event Producer (w/Louis Trahan)
Thu, May 23, 2024 2:04PM • 32:18

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ai, entrepreneur, client, training, learn, virtual, build, platforms, business, small business owner, small business, logistics, events, program, louis, good, service, day, providers, last minute

SPEAKERS
Louis Trahan, Roger Pierce

Intro 00:00
You're listening to the unsure entrepreneur podcast with Roger Pierce. Whether you're scribbling business ideas on a napkin, or wrestling with this should I shouldn't tie question, get ready to explore the realities, the risks and the rewards of entrepreneurship as we share the stories, scars and successes of small business owners.

Roger Pierce 00:22
Hello, and welcome to the unsure entrepreneur podcast. I'm your host, Roger Pierce. Thanks for coming to join us here today. Less than 20 years ago, our guest Louie Tron started off with a simple plan to connect companies with training through last minute training.ca, a popular online marketplace for training courses. From there, he got a lot of corporate requests for space and private training sessions. So he went on to start learn just x.com expanding into the corporate learning space, where he also fulfills training needs and produces many, many virtual events. When COVID hit Learn just X helped countless businesses keep their operations smooth, transforming potential logistical nightmares into seamless virtual experiences, from easing the tech burden on presenters to enhancing participant engagement. Louie's approach isn't just about keeping the show running. It's about making it better than ever before. And full disclosure, Louis and I have been friends for decades. Welcome, Louis.

Louis Trahan 01:25
Thanks for having me, Raj. Happy to be here.

Roger Pierce 01:27
I'm so excited to have you here. And we're gonna ask you lots of questions about your startup journey and how you got into this crazy life of an entrepreneur. Maybe you can provide some more specific examples beyond what I just read about what kind of training you're providing for clients these days. Learn just

Louis Trahan 01:43
X has really two main focuses. One is virtual events, which you mentioned, and the other in our historically where we started is in training. And so we currently provide training around AI readiness. That's a big space for us right now, as well as team communications, training and leadership training. Can

Roger Pierce 02:02
you tell me more about the AI training? That's a hot ticket, isn't it?

Louis Trahan 02:06
It is, literally every organization right now is in some state of AI readiness, whether they know it or not. There's usually you know, four conversations or four types of conversations happening depending on the size of the company. You know, you could have the C suite having their conversations about ethical bias and security and privacy and how is this what's this going to do to my workforce, you have the IT departments talking about what platforms and what models, you have all of your department heads talking to all their suppliers about how AI is being embedded into the software that's coming. And then you have your workers around the watercooler or maybe at home and talking about how they're worried that AI is going to replace them. So our programs are developed to address all those different conversations. So for the workers in general, we have a mastering generative AI course, which is just really a way for them to learn how to use AI to the point where they won't see it as a fool and see it more as a friend. We also have a very extensive list of IT courses, for IT departments, anywhere from machine learning to even something simple as understanding the difference between open source models and close models. And then we have a complete AI readiness program where we will help companies understand what their jobs are going to look like in five years, and what competencies they need. So we can start developing a roadmap to help build their workforce competencies to get them prepared for what's eventually going to happen. It's a really cool, fun time.

Roger Pierce 03:40
Oh, good grief. So you're really offering AI training at all different levels of a business? Exactly. So from someone using it for a day to day workflow or a job, right up to C suite. And I guess that's good business right now, a lot of people are wondering what to do with AI and how to leverage it. Well, it's

Louis Trahan 03:59
good business, but more than good business, it's necessary. What's really cool right now is for small business and entrepreneurs. Ai adoption can be a lot easier and a lot quicker than the enterprise. So we have this little bit of runway where we can become more competitive, they'll deliver more, because we can implement faster. It's really interesting to watch what's happening. And it's interesting to see who's burying their heads in the sand and who isn't. And they will be curious in five years to look back and see who move quick enough and who didn't. That's

Roger Pierce 04:33
an interesting comment. So you're saying us small businesses are more nimble. We need to leverage that right now and get on the AI train quickly. Exactly.

Louis Trahan 04:41
I think if you're not looking at it, now you're making mistake, you need to look at it now. AI is enabled for small business, things that big businesses can't afford. The big CRMs the big marketing plans are programs. They've often been out of reach financially for small business, and we have all the He says, you know, we might have a Google spreadsheet, we might have a small CRM, but we don't know how to make them talk to each other. Because you know, you have to be a programmer to use the API's. But what AI has done now is allowed us you to use natural language to tie into those API's. So you can use no code platforms like make or Zapier and you can actually start building automations that were previously not attainable. They'll also help you write better, better programs, better proposals, better emails, like it's just there's a lot it can do. And, and we often get stopped thinking about, we think about AI as Chachi Beatty and content creation, but there's just a lot more to AI. And if we can grab it now. And if we can work on it. Now it's gonna give us a couple of years of benefits. So yeah, I think small businesses really, because of our nimbleness are really poised to take advantage of that. So if

Roger Pierce 05:56
I was a small business owner listening or an upstart, do you offer a program just for me to like, get me into this knowledge, of course, some or something?

Louis Trahan 06:04
Yeah, we don't have a specific small business owner program. But we have our mastering chat or mastering general AI program, which is the basics for everything. And then we do have aI dreaming sessions where we will sit with you and hypothesize and talk about which areas so that you can understand which areas you can bring AI in. So we're not the people you're going to call to build your automations. But we're the ones who can sit with you and say, hey, here are some thoughts you should have about how you can make this better. That's fantastic. What is there a website for that particular learning? No, because, you know, we're small and nimble. And right now, our focus is just getting out there and doing this with clients. We will have our AI readiness program up on our website soon. But one of the great things about being an entrepreneur is that you can be nimble, and you can make these pivots a year ago, and still an important part of what we do, we were very focused on Team harmony, Team communications, Team norms, psychological safety, because even a small team or big team, you can get a lot more efficacy on your team if you have the right environment. So now as we've seen AI pushing in, and we've started to understand what's going to be happening, we've managed to pivot ourselves part of this entrepreneurial journey to focus on that. No, I

Roger Pierce 07:27
think you've got some really good points there. And check out the websites to keep updated probably right last minute training.ca Or learn just x.com. On that note, I want to pivot a bit to and talk about virtual events. I know this is one of your passions. You guys, and I've worked with you on this can set up a very complicated, looks complicated, but it's not I guess, virtual meeting space. So if I want to have a conference with 500 people, and I'm in Toronto, and I want to invite people from all around the world, you can help me do that, right.

Louis Trahan 07:59
We offer virtual production on a number of platforms. So if you're working within zoom, or you're working within WebEx, we know how to use the the meetings though the webinars, the Zoom events platform. And we also have our own platform that we build with a partner where we will custom build the venue for you. And you can think of a venue just like you would think of a lobby in a conference center, it's a place you walk into and you you have signs that show you where to go. And that's how we build our venue, we build our venue, so that you can walk in and there may be a games room, there might be a meeting space, there might be a networking room, there's a main stage. And then when you go into those rooms, doing air quotes here on your podcast for rooms, then we are connected to different technologies. So on the mainstage, we may be broadcasting a very high quality stream with lower thirds animated backgrounds, full HD graphics, but you may go to a breakout room, and it's you're joining a Zoom meeting. So what we do with that container is just use it to bring different tools to the table to build that conference, because we don't think you should be stuck. You shouldn't plan your conference based on a platform, you should select your platform based on what you need for your conference. Because all you should be thinking about is the attendee experience and how it affects your brand.

Roger Pierce 09:21
I've been to one of your current online conferences is really cool. I could go to these meeting rooms and network with people and have chats right like

Louis Trahan 09:28
to be fair to the big guys, organizations like zoom zoom events. It's a pretty robust platform now. And then there are quite a few platforms out there that have become affordable. So the days of building these custom venues are slowing down for us because we're finding we can do what our clients need with with off the shelf tools. And that's, again, the approach should be what does your client need? Not what do you have to sell?

Roger Pierce 09:54
Okay, so there's the platforms and they're getting more and more robust. That's great, but you guys take it a step further. Are there because you I'm nervous, let's say as the host of the event about my tech, my, my audio my video, how do you help me look good and sound good.

Louis Trahan 10:09
We have an entire we call it the gold planning process, we have a whole process around planning for virtual events. And part of that process is doing technical checks with speakers. So yeah, we would meet with you, we would test your intranet because we would ask you to plug in, we look at your lighting, we look at your, your framing your camera, and we just give you what suggestions we can I mean, you have to make do with what you have. If you're sitting with your back to a open window, we'll let you know that you should turn around or maybe cover the wind up. Just simple things, to make sure that you've done everything you can to sound as good as you can, given what you have.

Roger Pierce 10:45
That's so important to know, because you've got like producers that can help out the client, right?

Louis Trahan 10:50
Our producers sit on every event and they will share the screens, they'll share videos, they'll manage the chat, they'll support anyone in any of the participants are having problems connecting. So that as a presenter, you just have to focus on presenting because one of the things that became difficult when you move from doing a live presentation to a virtual is maintaining that connection, right? When you're live on stage, or you're there you're looking at people you're seeing the reactions, you're focused on them. When you get into a virtual environment, it becomes very difficult. And so the minute you stop presenting and look down to share a slide or realize that you haven't shared a full screen, and now you have to go and click a few buttons. Those few seconds live mean nothing. But when you're doing it virtually, it feels like forever. Our goal is to let the presenter continue to make their connection and not to push buttons will push the buttons for them. So that at the other end, the participants get a more enjoyable experience. That's

Roger Pierce 11:54
so amazing. That's so amazing. And just to elaborate and tell me if I got this wrong, but you can not only you know, provide the platforms and the production of my virtual event, but you can help me out with some topics and speakers. Is that right with some of the training? Yeah,

Louis Trahan 12:09
we actually have a new product launching soon. funny you mentioned that mentioned that now, no one knows this. So it'll be it'll either be out before your podcast or after. But we have pockets what we're calling a learning learning month in a box for companies who want to bring their employees like a month of learning, where we will give them the entire package, including the speakers and the trainers. So we'll give them a list of topics that they can choose from. And they can choose one topic per week. And we will run a session for them once a week in their own branded platform, and leave it open after for a set period of time for their employees to go back and revisit if they missed the original. So we can do from cradle to grave basically in in that event production.

Roger Pierce 12:53
And do you still do I think you do. I mean, I'm a big fan of webinars, you know me, I like doing webinars, you can also provide individual help for individual webinars, right? Yes,

Louis Trahan 13:04
we can. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of different technology for doing webinars. But if you're talking about a zoom webinar, or a WebEx webinar, it's very limited. You can't do a lot of like overlays. And certainly you can't manage them while you're producing what what while you're while you're presenting, we could even be brought in on site to handle your feed before hit zoom. So we would bring your camera into a mixer and into some kind of software or hardware that we may have, depending on the size of the of the event. And we could be putting, you know lower thirds up, we could be graphics up as you speak. If you think you know, some of the videos, you see where their points are appearing as the speaker speaking, we can actually build that all into the live session. So there's a lot you can do if you if you have the inclination and the money, we can help you get there.

Roger Pierce 13:55
Just give them a call. I mean, I love that as a presenter and I'm not a tech guy, I worry about hitting the wrong button or hit not hitting broadcast. And it's frustrating and and nerve wracking. But someone like you and your team can just take that away from where you're away from me. So I can just focus on delivery and content, right? No, absolutely. Who you're going to call learn just Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, so let's go back to the beginning of of it all last minute training. Let's talk about your inception and how you got into this business. Tell me the startup story. How did you get how did you get this idea?

Louis Trahan 14:35
So I was working for a nonprofit. And although I loved the nonprofit I was working for. I wasn't a fan of the politics. It wasn't in in an environment I thrived well in. And so I started thinking about what I wanted to do. And I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur again because I had been an entrepreneur prior. And so I started looking at ideas for businesses. And I think it took a different approach than many is what I started, the list I started with was a list of what I wanted from life. For example, I was just starting to date, the woman who's now my wife. So it was important to me that I didn't have a business that required me to work at night.

Roger Pierce 15:17
Shout out to Martha, Martha. And

Louis Trahan 15:21
I wanted a business that wouldn't tie me into one economy. So I wanted to be mobile. If I wanted to move around, I wanted to build a move. I knew I wanted an online business. I just built my life what I wanted in life. And then I had three business ideas at the time, told me Oh, every good entrepreneur has, I wrote basically, micro business plans, I want to call a micro business plan, because it was like a two pager. But what I was focused on was not money. Because I assumed that I would be able to make money off of anything I thought I could do. That's a typical entrepreneur would, or at least a nice an entrepreneur. And I compared to what my lifestyle would look like, to my life goals. And I actually chose last minute training because it fit more, check more of the boxes, I had no desire to be in training, what I liked was the last minute like the idea of having a Expedia or hotwire for training courses, because it didn't exist back then. And so I chose that business. And then the next step in my journey was to go out and survey to make sure that people would want this service. So I asked a lot of people if they would like to save money by buying training sessions at the last minute, and they all said yes. So I built the rest of my plan, and hired a programmer and built the first iteration. And then once everything was ready to go, I asked my first training provider if they'd be interested. And that's when I realized I didn't do my marketing properly. Oh, no. What do you mean, I didn't ask a single training vendor if they'd be interested in selling seats at a discount at the last minute before I launched. And the business model that I had in mind, which was a subscription base, and that's not the way last minute training started. It was unsellable. We had no traffic, we had no history, there were so many objections. Until, you know, we finally found our first provider who decided to take a chance on us and they proposed a different revenue model for us. And we accepted that. And that ended up becoming our revenue model, which is still like closely held secret.

Roger Pierce 17:24
You did all your homework and checked all the boxes like an entrepreneur should and when you got going, you did your market research, wrote a couple of small business plans, etc, etc. And

Louis Trahan 17:32
then you had to pivot. I did so well. The pivot happened naturally in a way. So we are listing all these computer courses, because when you think about what courses you would typically typically go in, attend, they were back then we're talking 20 years ago, now, they were computer courses, because for computer courses, you needed computers. So you would typically go and take a course. And so we had, at one point, we had 30,000 courses. And I would say that 29,000 were probably computer courses. On our website, what started happening was we started getting calls for people looking to rent computer labs. And so we extended our services from being a seller of training programs to being a broker for our same providers. So those same providers who offer computer training back then, would often have empty days where they had no classes scheduled. So if we could rent their computer labs for them, we were bringing them more value. And we were able to make a booking fee from that. And that extended into doing private trading people would call us and say, Well, it's great that you have a class but I have a team of 10. I have a team of 20. And so we started brokering deals between our providers and those companies. And slowly that became the bigger part of our business. And that's where you mentioned it earlier. We started as last minute training.ca. But we are now learning just x.com. And that's because we we did this project a few years ago where we built 198 computer labs across the country for a day or two at a time. So we had four crews on the road, they would set up a room in a library or in a classroom or in a gymnasium or in a church basement or in a professional meeting space. And we would set up all the AV equipment, we'd set up all the computers, we would do the guest rooms, we would do all the work around the logistics of this program. And we did it for it was quite a long program. We did it very successfully. And at the end of that we stopped and we said okay, the biggest part of our revenue now comes from corporate services, but we still call ourselves last minute training God's CIA, which is a website, and people just don't understand. They can't make that connection. And so learn logistics launched because logistics stands for the logistics of learning. And by the time we launched logistics, we are not only doing all this organization and finding trainers, but we've actually built our own some of our own training programs and we built software to help streamline the purchase of training programs. We've even built our own micro LMS For training rollouts to help our clients manage them. So the logistics of learning made a lot of sense. Learn just six, you know, did we? Did we need another made up word? Like, you know, we already have data on us we already have, like things that I can understand. But did we really need another made up word? No. But we have one. And yeah, so Logistics is a noun and a verb at the same time. I think it's a great name. So Wow. And this is what happens in small business, there's an evolution, you start off with one thing in mind. And often we end up a little bit to the left or right of that idea, right? Yeah, and you know, sometimes it's luck. Sometimes the timing just works. Sometimes you're forced, there's a lot of bumps in the road, we were doing really well with last minute training. And then one day, we woke up and we'd lost 60% of our traffic overnight, because at the time, we were doing SEO, according to the generally accepted principles, Article syndication with author by lines to build links back. And we ended up getting the index by Google and when your business is entirely online, and there's one, one way to find you, and that's Google, when they when they index you, you just die. And it took us a long time to figure out how we were going to get more revenue, the Corporate Services was what we focused on at that time. And then obviously, paid ads and other things. But it was a big bump in the road. And it kind of pushed us to say, Okay, we have to diversify a little bit, because it's not really where we want to be. And now we have all these clients asking us anyway, for this stuff, we have to diversify. So let's start to focus on it. You're

Roger Pierce 21:33
really good at, you know, mitigating the risk that way, by diversifying your income stream, I guess you opened up some different options there. Because you're right, you're gonna be at the whims and whimsies of the Google giants. With that business, you said, No, that's not for me, I'm going to come up with some other options. Right? Exactly. One of the things I respect about you, Louis, is you really listened to clients. And I think that's been part of your process, your your evolution, as you just described, you really listen to the needs of the client, you go, Hey, wait a minute, we can do that. And that's been a lot of your success, hasn't it listening to clients,

Louis Trahan 22:05
it has been a lot of my success, it's also been a few bumps. But definitely listing the client to see what they need and see what we want and to approach every need with the same value. I was very good friends with another person. And I'm very good friends with a entrepreneur, mentor, who really promotes this idea of distilling your values down to one word. And for us, our ONE WORD is delight. And we were there before Phenix started putting it on their packages. We've been offering delightful service for many, many years. And that's kind of been the answer to our question, can we do this is more like, Can we do this and delight the client at the same time, because just because we can do something doesn't mean we're going to make it delightful. And if we can't make it delightful, we don't want to do it. And that has, you know, we've caught ourselves saying yes to projects, because we really want to help clients and delight them, and not being able to deliver well, and have to say, You know what, in the future, we're going to have to say no. And even though that's not a delightful way to deal with the client, it will help the client a lot better to have them, have someone else do the work. So it is listening to them. But it's also approaching and offering them what we can and being able to pivot. But you also have to keep it within your wheelhouse.

Roger Pierce 23:22
So in your opinion, is the client always right? No. But

Louis Trahan 23:27
as long as they think they are good. That's a tough one. The clients are not always right. But you have to decide as your what stake you want to put in the ground. I have given money back to clients who have not been 100% happy. But their expectation was completely misaligned with the project. And when you go back to the project to say, but this is what we're supposed to do, we're doing it. And a good example is we did a book launch for somebody, and we give technical producers, you give us a script, and we're going to switch the screen, we're going to do this, we're going to do that we're into this, but this person has a entertainment background TV background. And her impression of a producer was someone who would make creative decisions along the way. And so she thought that we would just know that now's a good time to do this. And that and flow in that wasn't what she hired us for. We could have done that. But that wasn't the spec. So once she right. I mean, I don't think she was right, because we provided exactly what we want. So when she right to be unhappy, but at the end of the day, doesn't matter if she was right or not like she's still my client, and it's still my reputation. I'm not going to say Oh, you were wrong. I'm going to say I'm sorry. Next time we'll do better and learn from it. And what I've learned is to confirm what kind of produce for you looking for customers. Not always right but you don't have to let them know they weren't. On

Roger Pierce 24:51
that note to you. I talked to someone else another episode about customers selecting our customers. You're at the stage now you're very successful with this business. You don't have to work with everybody who comes along, you can pick and choose. But for upstart think back to the days when we had no money, and no clients. It's harder to say no to that pay job, isn't it? So what do you what do you say to that? What do you say to someone about saying no to client jobs?

Louis Trahan 25:15
It's a lesson we learned late. I don't know if you can say anything, Roger, I think it's part of the entrepreneurial journey. But what I would suggest is that you come up with a list of stop questions. When you're talking to the client, in your mind, you're asking, or you're looking for the answers to this question. So how much do they align with your values? And if they don't align with your values, it's probably a stop question. Because you don't want to work with them. If you have a certain size, and you know, your budget is going to be higher, if you're building a service that's going to be of benefit and easily attainable for a company of 200. And you're talking to someone and they say, Oh, I have five people, you might want to have a stop at that point, right? So you just need to build those those stop questions as you go. I don't know if you can do at the beginning. Because like you say, first of all, you don't really know your limits, sometimes in the beginning. And as an entrepreneur, most entrepreneurs have this ability to grind through things like oh, you mean, you need me to do this, I'm not just going to say no, I'm going to figure it out. And so you believe you can figure it out. You go ahead and you do it. And when you're starting out that unless that makes a little bit of sense, because you have a lot more time on your hands. You don't have as many clients. But as you get busier, you start to really understand where you're not good. A great example, I was just before this call was coding client is doing a hybrid conference. And there's a lot of live production mixed with virtual production. We do a certain subset of live production. But at some point, we know that there are other companies that do better. So I was talking to a partner of ours, who would do that piece better right now, could I have said, yeah, we'll do it ourselves. And could I grind it through it? Probably yes. But for the amount of money that I'm going to make versus outsourcing it. And the amount of time it would take me from managing my business, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. And from a customer delight, they're gonna get a better experience with the partner. So you have to know when to say yes and when to say no. And it's a learned.

Roger Pierce 27:19
It's not something that's taught overnight for sure when to say yes, when to say no. Believe in yourself. Right. And I love that shout out by the way, I know you were referring to our mutual friend, Evan Carmichael, author of your one word, very smart guy, watch his YouTube channels. Very successful, you

Louis Trahan 27:36
can learn a lot from him.

Roger Pierce 27:37
So what do you love most about being an entrepreneur? You've been one now for decades. Yeah,

Louis Trahan 27:42
it's interesting that one thing you will find as an entrepreneur, you're going to ask yourself that often? Why am I doing it? The most important time to ask yourself is when things start to get rough. Because you will go cycles. And so what what do you love about being an entrepreneur comes out the most when you're going through the tougher times when sales are down when you might be losing money. And what I love about being an entrepreneur is ultimately the flexibility and the fluidity. So I am like every other entrepreneur, I like shiny objects. That's why I'm not super rich. Right now. I'm just successful. I'm not on a 500 foot yacht. But I enjoy my life, I have my house and I have my kids and I'm able to for me, I'm able to spend a lot more time being involved in my children's lives than I would if I worked for someone else. It allows me to volunteer on my like my son's soccer team, that flexibility is, is worth more than money to me. So that's probably the the biggest thing and I get bored easy. So I want to be able to go out and do a passion project if I want. So if everything's going well, and I want to explore new avenue or potential new service, I can just go ahead and do that. I don't need to ask permission. Because asking permission is another thing I don't enjoy. As an entrepreneur, I've got flexibility. And I don't have to ask permission. I think those are the most, the two most important things for me, and I get to control the service, I'm delivering my client, that's the third versus someone else's.

Roger Pierce 29:19
All these things combined give you the ability to prioritize your family and take those moments with them.

Louis Trahan 29:26
Absolutely. And I think that's the most important thing. We're

Roger Pierce 29:29
almost at a time when I want to ask you can you give me one little piece of advice for someone? Think young Louis, way back when starting out? Can you think of one one piece of advice you'd offer to a potential entrepreneur?

Louis Trahan 29:41
Just wanna? Well, if you're just in the process of planning, I would say ask the right people the right questions when you're doing your market surveys, because although I've made it this far, it's been a grind and had I ask the right questions, I probably would have understood how difficult I was going to be to launch the way I did. And I may not have done it. I mean, I'm happy I did now, but that's because I'm stubborn. So yeah, make sure you do. The old adage, you build it and they will come isn't necessarily true. So just make sure you do your research and understand that it's not going to go the way you want. So the more questions you can ask, and the more input you can get from potential clients before you start, the better, you'll be ask

Roger Pierce 30:24
the right questions. I love it. Great advice. Thank you, Louis. No

Louis Trahan 30:29
problem. And Raj, I have one more piece of advice. If you'd like that I have come up with myself. Don't blow your nose where you're sitting on the toilet. And what that means if someone's trying to get you into a deal, or into a project or something, and it seems like it's gonna stink, or husband, just think, walk away. Just keep yourself away from those situations. So don't blow your nose. We're sitting on the toilet. And you heard it here first. I'm sure entrepreneur, everybody.

Roger Pierce 30:59
Fantastic. I love it. Thank you so much. And unfortunately, that's all the time we have. I want to thank you very much Louis Trahan for sharing your entrepreneurial journey and wisdom with us. It means a lot to me and our audience. But before you go, if a listener wants to connect, what's the best way to reach you?

Louis Trahan 31:15
We have a form on our website, learn just x.com you can connect there or look me up on LinkedIn. I think you just look for that Louis Tran and I think I'm one of the few Louis ter hands on there. And that's LOUIS TRAHAN. And I pretty much accept any LinkedIn requests. So go ahead and link me up. Awesome. Wonderful.

Roger Pierce 31:36
Thanks again, Louis. And to our listeners. Thank you for being here. Be sure to return next time for more insights from the unsure entrepreneur. Bye for now.

Intro 31:46
That's it for this episode of the onshore entrepreneur podcast. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss other candid conversations with small business owners. And be sure to check us out at unsureentrepreneur.com