The Unsure Entrepreneur

Unsure Entrepreneur - Janice Waugh
Wed, Nov 13, 2024 1:16PM • 32:05

SPEAKERS
Roger Pierce, Janice Waugh

Intro 00:00
You're listening to the unsure entrepreneur podcast with Roger Pierce, whether you're scribbling business ideas on a napkin or wrestling with the should I shouldn't I question. Get ready to explore the realities, the risks and the rewards of entrepreneurship as we share the stories, scars and successes of small business owners.

Roger Pierce 00:22
Hello and welcome to another episode of The unsure entrepreneur. My name is Roger Pierce. Thanks for joining us here today. You know, I'm so excited to introduce my next guest, Janice Wah. She's the founder of solo traveler and executive director and founder of the nonprofit organization North Star startups. How you doing? Janice?

Janice Waugh 00:42
I'm doing very well. Roger, nice to be here.

Roger Pierce 00:46
Excited to have you. I'm going to give the folks a bit of a bio on you so we can get to know who you are. Janice is the founder of solo traveler.com a platform that provides extensive resources and support for solo travelers. For over a decade, her team has been monitoring the solo travel market and producing annual data through comprehensive reader surveys. Solo traveler connects with over 60,000 subscribers via email and engages with more than 270,000 members in the solo travel society on Facebook. Wow. Additionally, Janice is the executive director and founder of North Star startups, an organization dedicated to helping individuals facing food and financial instability develop self employment and small businesses to help achieve economic security. Fantastic. Welcome again, Janice. Nice to have you here.

Janice Waugh 01:40
Thank you very much, Roger.

Roger Pierce 01:42
So we're going to kind of split our time. I want to hear more about your entrepreneurial journey, because that's who you are, but also this amazing organization that you've helped to co found that's that's helping entrepreneurs. So you are a double whammy entrepreneur.

Janice Waugh 01:56
Where do you want to start?

Roger Pierce 01:57
Well, let's talk about talk about your Inception story and for solo traveler, tell us more about what it is, because it's a very unique industry, and your revenue model is fantastic. You're making making money off content and all kinds of interesting things that people need to learn about. So let's start about, you know, tell us a bit more about the business and how you got into this.

Janice Waugh 02:15
Okay, so how did I get into this? Well, my husband passed away, so after decades of travel, one of my first trip when I was 15, I never traveled again with family for like, 40 years or something, right? So travel is like in my bones. Anyways, my husband passed away, and so I was kind of looking for what was next for me. They had occurred to me that I'd be traveling alone, that I'd be traveling solo. And so I picked up my computer, as a good writer does, to research, and discovered that the first thing that showed up was very spammy, very hookupy, that kind of thing. And I thought, now there's another voice that's needed out there. And so actually, the next day, I started just, you know, Twitter is just kind of coming into four and I just started and and it's grown. And so it came out of a very personal place, but then became quite public and quite large. But it's also the nice thing is that it's a combination. I had a conference and trade show business. I'd kind of been through the full business cycle where I'd started and then sold that then I was a freelance writer, and all I really need to learn was the technology, what's going on on the online world. And so it was a challenge, but it was also a natural development. So that's, that's where it comes from.

Roger Pierce 03:34
For people who don't know, and I need a refresher, explain to me the whole concept and challenge of solo traveling.

Janice Waugh 03:41
Okay, so if you're traveling independently, it's pretty straightforward. But if you want to go on a tour or a cruise, you're going to be charged what's called a supplement, because the tour and cruise companies prefer to sell to two people, two people taking a room together, that type of thing. But if you're going alone, you actually want your own room, then they charge the supplements. So if it's two people, they might be paying $1,500 each for a trip. And when I started, single person would pay 3000 100% supplement was not unusual at all. And so that's what we took on and started advocating and contacting companies and trying to change that model. And there are so many companies that have that model at 100% I've seen even higher 120 if you can believe it, but the companies that advertise with us can have no more than a 20% supplement, and many have no supplement at all. So that's been, you know, that differentiator, that pain point that we've been able to address for our readership and been very significant part of our growth and also our financial base.

Roger Pierce 04:48
So if the room is $1,500 what does it matter? If I have one or two people in there.

Janice Waugh 04:53
The tour is $1,500, so the tour company is paying for two rooms rather than one. But let's think about it. They are not paying extra for their tour guide. They're not paying extra for like, there's all sorts of things that are not additional expenses. So they just the tour industry just made it a standard of 100% more, because they can make a double the sale by selling two people at once. If you think of a cruise ship, all of those extras that get added to a cruise ship. Now you've only got one person buying all those extras, rather than two people. So there is a financial reason behind it. But with shifting demographics, now there are actually more people that are not coupled than are. So with all those shifting demographics, and especially 50 plus, where there's more money for travel, then you get the people in the divorce sector, things of this nature. There's a big market so many companies are discovering this market and really acting on it.

Roger Pierce 05:53
Wow. Okay, so it's tours. We're talking about. Oh yes, got it.

Janice Waugh 05:58
That's in cruises.

Roger Pierce 06:00
Yeah, yeah. We were on a cruise earlier this year down to Gulf of Mexico. Is great, and I can see that. And you're a writer. I mean, your background is your professional writer. You and I have worked together. We've, I've hired you to write some stuff for clients, and done you've done very well. So you started writing this solo traveler blog, as I recall, and it evolved into this behemoth that is like, tell us some of the facets of your business now.

Janice Waugh 06:24
The financial base is selling to companies. It's selling advertising to companies that will not charge more than the 20% so that direct sales advertising approach is very much part of it. We've got a course that we sell. We have programmatic advertising, which is the ads that automatically get inserted in copy and content. We don't do much in the way of affiliate marketing, but that is a small piece of what we do. So there are many small streams, but the major revenue stream is the direct sale advertising.

Roger Pierce 06:57
Direct sale advertising, you've managed to make money out of content, something here, near and dear to my heart, I'm still trying to figure that out. That's a different space, for sure. You know, another valuable lesson on the show, of course, is for aspiring entrepreneurs and existing entrepreneurs who are unsure, have some questions. Of course, you are a great example of a niche solo travelers. People looking to go out tours, on their cruises, on their own. Don't want to pay the supplement. That is such a great example of a niche business. And when you focus on a niche business, you really are cutting down your marketing costs because it's a lot easier to understand what someone does. Oh, look at that. That's exactly what I need. And I wanted you to maybe expand on that a bit for me. And do you ever think about, well, maybe I should be offering it to a wider traveling audience, or how do you maintain your discipline just to focus on this niche?

Janice Waugh 07:47
It's very interesting because, of course, that has been, how about the solo business traveler and that type of thing, right? There's always temptation. But I guess one of the things that I'd like to mention is the value of listening to your customers, the value of listening to your readers, because when I started solo traveler, I was an Independent Traveler, so I didn't know about the single supplement, right? I started it, as most businesses do that are successful out of a passion for travel. I started it out of personal circumstances where my husband had passed away, so I was traveling solo. That all happened organically, and then by listening, and it was, didn't take long. It was, like a month and a half into the business that it was, I started hearing about the supplement, and that, you know how people hated the supplement, and how big the supplement was, and things like, Well, okay, now I know what my business is, where the financial base is going to come from, and it's by listening to customers that you learn these things in business.

Roger Pierce 08:47
Great example there too. Listen to your customers first listen more than we talk. Give me some examples if you can of the types of clients that are on board.

Janice Waugh 08:55
Sure. So Exodus is a Canadian company, adventure Canada. Wow. They produce wonderful, wonderful expeditions in the north, so companies of that nature, so both tour and cruise companies are the are the ones that that, that we work with. And we we probably have at any given time, 25 to 30 companies advertising on our site, but we have a list of probably more like 80 to 100 that are prospects and that may might come and go, because some of them are very small. There are tour companies that run like one to two tours a year. So they're very personal. It's been interesting. I didn't realize that. I thought they were all like, Gee, adventures. They're not.

Roger Pierce 09:36
So there's a variety of options. So if I wanted to pursue one of my lifelong dreams and go bicycling in Belgium. Is there something on there for me?

Janice Waugh 09:43
Absolutely. I would go to Exodus for that. Actually, Exodus travels, okay, they are really good in the cycling and hiking space.

Roger Pierce 09:52
I better get permission from my wife first.

Janice Waugh 09:56
I actually did an independent travel with them once. So that was. Quite interesting. So they lined it all up. Then I just did it through France. I was a walking trip, hiking trip in France. So like they can do that for you, or you can go with a group France.

Roger Pierce 10:09
Sounds interesting to me, but give me a couple of examples of your more memorable destinations. You must be all over the world through this business.

Janice Waugh 10:17
Yeah, I think my two most memorable are chilly Patagonia. Flew to Santiago and then made my way down to Patagonia, and then, you know, hiked there and India. They're the two most, most dramatic in terms of the impact on life, on understanding myself and things like that. But going to the UK is just so it's wonderful as well. Like, it doesn't have to be someplace as exotic as India.

Roger Pierce 10:44
And where are you going next?

Janice Waugh 10:46
You know what? I don't know. I've got three possibilities. So I'm just, I'm just toying. I'm just toying with it at the moment, as we were talking about with North Star, I'm also busy with that, so I'm not but prior to COVID, I was traveling about three months a year total. Now not so much, because during COVID, I co founded Northstar Startups.

Roger Pierce 11:08
And that is an excellent segue. Northstar startups, Northstar startups.com right? Yeah. I stumbled across the organization because I saw your post on LinkedIn and you're doing some fundraising. Tell me about this. This is a fascinating organization. What are you doing for people and who are you helping?

Janice Waugh 11:24
Okay, so I was in Morocco when COVID was declared, pandemic was declared, wow. Got home on a repatriation flight, all that kind of stuff. It was exciting. And then, because I had been traveling so much, I had not been volunteering, and volunteering has been a big part of my life. So the first thing I did we went to volunteer Toronto. What's needed. I drove for Meals on Wheels for quite a while, the food space was really needed. And when you think about Meals on Wheels, it's seniors serving seniors, and they were all terrified. So being a little bit younger, I just delved in and was doing that, but then I got into the food bank space. When I was working at a food bank, I was giving out the fruit and veg, small detail, I became vegetarian when I was in India. So there's a link, but meeting people, talking to people, and recognizing skills and talents, and also understanding that employment is not for everybody. I have four sons, and two of my sons self employed. They're not good employees because they've got too many ideas and they just that makes them great entrepreneurs. So I started to see some of this. I was starting to see skills and talents and underemployment situations like this. And so that's when the concept kind of came to me. Then I met with Bryson Dodge, who is kind of almost the opposite of me, in a sense, right? He's an MBA chart accountant, that kind of thing. And I'm like, the person that's, you know, made things go as I, as I, as ever I want, right? So we're but we're wonderful together.

Roger Pierce 13:05
Words meet numbers.

Janice Waugh 13:06
Yeah, exactly, exactly. This was in 21 that we met and we started working on this project.

Roger Pierce 13:14
So give me some size and scope here. Now, I mean, the website's fantastic. It looks like it got some success stories on there. Give you some particulars.

Janice Waugh 13:21
We are moving slowly as we're building out the foundation and as we're learning and listening to our customers. And our customers face more challenges than you and I, or I have ever faced in our lives, such as well. You know when you hear from someone that says the scariest part of my day is going from the sidewalk to my apartment, going through the Toronto Community Housing building that she she lived in, right? She lives in, was terrifying, right? So when you hear that, and you think of that, the stress that that imposes, when you think of people who have to go because food banks only give two days of food out. And if you're serving, you know, feeding a family whatever, then you are going to food banks two to three times a week. What does that do with your prospects of getting beyond right? Another person who got a job, and then I discovered it was actually in a sweatshop. Everything was under the table. It was not safe, but this is what she's doing in order to make ends meet and support her daughter for a better life. These are barriers that we don't think about in everyday life, and for most of us that are so fortunate. And then, of course, there are people on Ontario Disability, and in that situation, it's not necessary. The goal isn't to get people off disability, but to enhance their life with greater confidence in themselves. As a matter of fact, when we ask people, What are the people that we serve our clients, what we do for them, they don't talk about the mentor we give them. We don't. Talk about the financial they don't talk about the financial support. They don't talk about the workshops. I don't talk about the infrastructure that we built. They talk about the confidence that we've given them a different sense of themselves. And hope it's very interesting. So when you're asking about scale and the like, I have to say, you know, 15 businesses have been started to various degrees of success, but hundreds of lives have been we've touched in one way or another through our workshops, through talking to people in food bank lines about what we do. And it kind of changes things small ways, and then the people that make it into our business incubator, it changes things in big ways, fantastic.

Roger Pierce 15:40
You know, one of the things I love about entrepreneurship, it can solve a lot of life problems. Can it?

Janice Waugh 15:46
I was a freelance writer. I worked for you. Did you ever ask me what my credentials were to be a freelance writer?

Roger Pierce 15:54
I don't think so. You just wrote well.

Janice Waugh 15:55
I just declared myself a writer, and you came up and said, you know, we need a writer. You know, let's see your work. I have no credentials to be a writer. Look at you now, but that's the nature of self employment, right? You can be self educated as long as you're diligent and willing to learn your craft better and better all the time and respectful of the clients. And you know, you do all the fundamentals of business. This is possible. There's no one saying, Oh, you don't have a bachelor's degree. You know, none of that. It's gone.

Roger Pierce 16:28
I was talking with that earlier in another podcast with a guest. There's no credentials to be an entrepreneur. There's no license, there's no driver's license, there's no small business permit to operate. To become an entrepreneur, you really just gotta learn the skills yourself and surround yourself with old people and the things you're helping entrepreneurs to do, and have the confidence like you alluded to earlier, to get up there and try your own business.

Janice Waugh 16:52
That's right. And fortunately, there's so many resources now. Oh, I can't remember, I don't how many incubators are on Toronto. There must be 50 at least. There are tons of incubators, but more if you want to take a more direct route, depending upon how big you want to be, just kind of YouTube, the resources are incredible. Your Podcast, right? Like, there's just so many you want to learn. I was just talking to someone yesterday. You need a CRM. You need something to track your customers, and the place to start is with a Google spreadsheet, because it's absolutely free. There you go. There was a YouTube video on how to create a CRM out of a Google spreadsheet. It's all there for you. You need to know what you're looking for.

Roger Pierce 17:36
You're right. There's so many resources. This is what I call the era of the entrepreneur, because there's so many empowering aspects and facilities and resources out there, you just got to look. And it's part of my mission, too, to help shed some light on some of the resources out there that may not otherwise be known. And I often tell people, in terms of funding, you know, there are billions and billions of dollars of tax subsidies, grants, loans, job wage subsidies, available from the federal, provincial and even local governments the states. It's times 10. You know, there's lots of resources out there, if you just look and you hunt, and like you alluded to, all the tools and technology and things that are available to it to us, make it really easy to get into business. You don't have to spend couple $100,000 to start up a restaurant, which is a risky category, less than 1000 bucks, less than 500 bucks, you can get a little service based business going Shopify, plug in something like that. Doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg, does it?

Janice Waugh 18:37
No. So the businesses that we support are primarily service based. Actually, one of our entrepreneurs just redid my patio in the backyard. Oh, my God, right. I mean, that's that takes skill, that takes knowledge, that takes drainage knowledge, and I have to say, that big storm on Tuesday, there was no pooling that drained beautifully. I was so thrilled. Good timing, yeah, really, yeah.

Janice Waugh 19:03
But the reality is, is that he can then keep that business small, just himself going around with he's got a whole customer base that he's working right. Or he can hire people and have a team, and then you could have two teams, and then you can go to another city. I mean, a service based business can be as tiny as you want or as huge as you want, right?

Roger Pierce 19:26
Good point. Yes, you're right. And that comes down to choice. You know, do I want the headaches of scale, or do I want to just keep it small? And that's right, efficient, charge large, hopefully because you're dealing with smaller volume. But these are all the options. It's about designing a business tailored to you. Yes, absolutely. I think you and I are both proponents of that belief. You don't have to be a Dragon's Den type person. Do you can have a very small, successful business. I know lots of entrepreneurs who have been made it through the grind for 2030, years, and now they're like, I don't want employees. I just want to be me. Me. They downsize on purpose. They keep it simple.

Janice Waugh 20:05
Absolutely. When I sold my business, it was 98 or whatever. I never wanted an employee again. There you go. Yeah. Now I have a couple of partners, kind of employee partner kind of things, right for Solo Traveler, but that's the thing, is that entrepreneurship should feed you, should serve you, and you don't have to make it what someone else thinks it should be. Make it what you want it to be.

Roger Pierce 20:30
Make it what you want it to be. Well, as you were coming along, what would you say was one of your biggest challenges? What kind of hurdles did you have to overcome in building Solo Traveler?

Janice Waugh 20:38
I had to be realistic about what my income was, and that's fine. There are prices to pay as well. It's not like my income was steady the whole time, exactly.

Roger Pierce 20:51
Lumpy cash flow, as I call it.

Janice Waugh 20:53
That's right, but the reward is greater, from my perspective, the reward of being self employed and having the flexibility in my life to do what I want, you know, to write a guide for you at a coffee shop, or to be able to travel and be able to okay and write off that travel from my tax returns, right? That's a pretty big reward for this, I'm willing to go through a bumpy time in terms of the money coming in.

Roger Pierce 21:25
Makes sense, and again, another piece of wisdom you've inadvertently shared there is design your business to suit your passions and your desires. Yours is travel. You're in the travel industry business. This is what people have to think about when they're starting up a business. Don't get into something that's not a good fit, right? Going to travel the world, and let's, let's make it so if you want to write every day, let's make it so if you want to deal with people or help people, let's think about that and come up with some business ideas appropriate, right?

Janice Waugh 21:54
Absolutely, because that's what keeps you in it for the long run. You know, it's been 15 years a solo traveler. That's a long time, but that's my longest time to tell you the truth if you're doing something that you love or it's connected to something that you love, because no business do we love. Every aspect of the business, I still have to do accounting. I still have to, you know, do tedious work, right? Tedious work is there, but the payoffs are there. And by being in a space that's really important and important to me, it gives me stamina.

Roger Pierce 22:27
Do you wake up every day anxious to get to work?

Janice Waugh 22:29
Yes, I have to say, I'm pretty good at that.

Roger Pierce 22:34
That's great. And that's a feeling it's hard to relate to unless you're an entrepreneur and you found your call.

Janice Waugh 22:40
And I have to say for me, some mornings, it's about North Star, because I invest a lot of my time there, because it's a passion project, and sometimes it's solar traveler.

Roger Pierce 22:49
That's the feeling I wish more and more people would get to experience in their life. You know, waking up in the morning and anxious to get to work, the clock moves too fast. As an entrepreneur, I'm running out of time. Oh, I didn't get to this. I didn't get to that, damn it. It's already six o'clock or seven o'clock, and I gotta go take my kid to baseball or something. But the clock is way too fast, whereas people with a job, it's very slow, like it. We hate our job, and I just think that's a terrible way to live. But we're here to help change some of that.

Janice Waugh 23:18
Yeah, to make the Unsure Entrepreneur more sure of themselves, right? I know; love the name of your of your podcast.

Roger Pierce 23:25
Well, thank you very much. Now listen. I wanted to ask you about your community. Did I see 270,000 and over 275000 on Facebook?

Janice Waugh 23:32
That's over 15 years of building, right? But yeah, 275,000 on Facebook, the mailing list is the bigger deal, in my mind, because a mailing list is the most direct route to customers, and it's a route that cannot be taken from you through an algorithm change. Good point. And when I sold my business in 98 what we sold was our brand, our space, in the market, they took us out of the market and our list. There you go. So a list is so valuable, so so valuable.

Roger Pierce 24:09
And for people who don't understand that, email marketing, a lot of people think it's all boring, old school 90s tech, email lists are still the go to choice for marketers. There's a 38 to one return for every dollar you spend on email marketing. You can expect roughly $38 back in return, because it's so direct, it's so valuable, it's so intimate, that you can add links, you can add attachments, you could monitor the clicks and the opens. It's genius.

Janice Waugh 24:39
Yeah, and the technology of email marketing has changed over the years. It's much more sophisticated. You can slice and dice your subscribers as you learn more about them, tagging them to understand what it is that they want, what they want to buy. That's a very sophisticated space right now,

Roger Pierce 24:55
important asset for you and your business for sure. Give us a tip on how to grow. Such a large community. I mean, you obviously are a content creator, which is just as someone who wants to do the same.

Janice Waugh 25:05
It was easier on Facebook. I think it still is. It's easier on Facebook than it is on Instagram. Community is not natural to Instagram, whereas it is more so on Facebook, though you are dealing with a specific demo, it changes demographics, so it's not the right place to be, just because you can build community. If the demographics not right, you have to think about that as well. But on Facebook, it was about interaction. It was about asking interesting questions. It's about letting the members of the community ask questions so we are not a group, it is a Facebook page, so that the moderation is more controlled, right? So that we control the branding, we control the messaging, things like that. But people can message us and say, I'm going to Brussels. If we're going to stay in Belgium, I'm going to Brussels. And what do people have suggestions for people to do, for me to do, or where to stay? And so we'll put that up there, and then the community steps in and shares and boards, and we've had a couple of situations where a new solo traveler has been in a new location, it's their first trip, and they're terrified, and they're like and so they go on and they message us, and then we put it on the Facebook, and like all these people from the solo travel society are there and supporting them and cheering them on.

Roger Pierce 26:23
It's quite extraordinary is that what it's called the solo traveler society,

Janice Waugh 26:25
Solo travel society, and there you go. That goes off brand, right? Traditional branding would say, call it Solo Traveler. Your site is solo traveler, right? But we wanted to make a community, so that's why we kind of put up this cutesy solo travel society thing, and so people feel that. They feel ownership. They feel other members.

Roger Pierce 26:47
You know, you remind me, was it Malcolm Gladwell or Seth Godin? I forget who said it, but you only need 1000 members, 1000 people, to start earning money, even less than that right now, community of 1000 will do you quite well, right? And whatever selling fishing rods or traveling, right? If there's enough people to get 1000 people in a list or in a community, that kind of list is going to help you generate some income, no matter, no matter how you go about it, and you've got almost 300,000 of them out there, so kudos to you.

Janice Waugh 27:20
Well, you just mentioned two of my faves. Everyone should be listening to Seth Godin. And actually it was his, because his book tribes came out at around the same time. That way, I think I could get it for free with him reading it. So I was listening to the audiobook while I was walking. It was like this man's brilliant, but he is very much about following your passion, creating a business that suits your life.

Roger Pierce 27:45
Fantastic blog, too. If you don't, the listeners haven't already, please subscribe to Seth's blog. It comes out daily, really insightful little pieces of wisdom. Yeah, for sure, yeah. So watching our clock here. But I got a couple questions for you. I want to ask you kind of one question on your entrepreneur life. But also, let's start with North Stars. What do you need to help achieve your vision or advance or help more people at Northstars? What's an ask you would have of people listening?

Janice Waugh 28:14
Thank you for that. We are focusing on Scarborough at this point in time. We do have some entrepreneurs outside of Scarborough, but we are focusing on Scarborough because that helps build community again. And so the entrepreneurs, they run into each other, right? And they know each other, and they are living in a space where entrepreneurship is not normal. And so connecting with that, with each other is a really valuable thing. So we are focusing on Scarborough mentors, definitely looking for mentors. And we have a kind of a series of events coming up, September, October, where we'll have another intake of new entrepreneurs. So we will definitely be looking for mentors in September. So that's one thing, and the other is, sometimes we just need volunteers. I'm looking for someone that's got WordPress knowledge that might just want to maintain the site, social media person, that type of thing. So sometimes we're just looking for volunteers to do some back office stuff.

Roger Pierce 29:11
And the best way to approach is Northstar startups.com Yeah, for sure. Excellent for that. Yeah. Please. Please, folks, consider helping out some fellow entrepreneurs, and in terms of your business, Janice, I'm going to ask you for a piece of advice you give to someone who's the way back at the beginning thinking about starting a business, not quite sure, unsure of it all. Is there something you can impart to people who are at that stage?

Janice Waugh 29:35
The most important thing is to stick with it. I hate to say it's so straightforward, right? But talk to people, someone you know knows, someone that knows what you need to know, right? So talk to people, but what you need to learn. Use that networking opportunity, but try to drive through. You know, it's like you're moving. You're moving the ball up the hill. At some point you'll get to the top and the momentum. Tim will start, but it's you that has to keep on pushing it up. So you just got to keep on pushing but drawing on your network, drawing on resources like your podcast, learning constantly. These are the things that get you up the hill. And then it can get can get easier, not easy necessarily, but easier.

Roger Pierce 30:22
That's true. Keep going, draw on resources and plan.

Janice Waugh 30:24
I do need to say, you know, one of the biggest challenges for entrepreneurs is to know what to do when there's nothing to do if you don't have a client that's driving you to do something, what do you do? So taking that time to plan what is your next move, and to use your time efficiently so that you do get those customers that are driving you is really important as well.

Roger Pierce 30:46
Terrific stop and think. Excellent advice. Thank you for sharing that. I could talk to you all day, but unfortunately, that's all the time we have. I want to thank you very much. Janice well for sharing your entrepreneurial journey and experiences with us. Means so much before you go, can you give us maybe two websites, how to reach you, your business, and how to again, reach Northstars.

Janice Waugh 31:06
So Solo Traveler is the name of the blog. The URL, though, is https://solotravelerworld.com/ and that's a double L or a single but when you read it, we've sold out to the Americans very quickly. So it's American spelling, just so you know, Northstar Startups is https://northstarstartups.com/

Roger Pierce 31:24
Excellent, two fantastic websites. I hope everyone checks them out. Thanks again. I really appreciate it. And to our listeners, thank you for being here, and be sure to return next episode for more insights from the unsure entrepreneur. Bye. Everyone. Bye, bye. Thanks, Roger.

Intro 31:40
That's it for this episode of The Unsure Entrepreneur podcast. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss other candid conversations with small business owners, and be sure to check us out at https://www.unsureentrepreneur.com/.